How would this combo play out with Howl of the Horde and Reverberate?

Asked by kryophyre 7 years ago

I want to use Howl of the Horde and Reverberate to multiply a Banefire, but I'm kind of confused as to how that would play out.

Howl of the Horde duplicates the nest spell I cast, so would the order go "Attack with a Creature" - Banefire - Howl of the Horde - Reverberate?

And if I use Howl of the Horde on Reverberate can that cause an infinite loop of duplication? Since I get 2 copies of Reverberate I can use one to copy Howl of the Horde and one to copy Banefire?

IzzetGod says... #1

No. It would not cause an infinite loop. The scenario is you attack with a creature. 2nd Main Phase, you cast Banefire, in response you then cast Howl of the Horde with the Raid trigger. And once that resolves, with Banefire still on the stack, you cast Reverberate. You will have 2 Reverberate, but the Howl of the Horde MUST resolve in order to get the 2 copies of Reverberate so the only thing to copy is the Banefire.

October 7, 2016 11:50 a.m.

kryophyre says... #2

IzzetGod

Okay, that kinda makes sense, so in the end using Howl of the Horde on Reverberate is redundant and I should just duplicate Banefire with Howl of the Horde and Reverberate directly?

October 7, 2016 11:55 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #3

Howl of the Horde is a sorcery. Unless you can give it flash there's no order of casting that'd get the result you want of ridiculous amount, or infinite amount, of Banefires.

Best you can do is copy Banefire 4 times with Howl of the Horde (cause you attacked) being copied with Reverberate.

Cast HOTH first because it's a sorcery. It resolves, then cast Banefire, which is copied twice. Then copy it again with Reverberate.

If you respond to HOTH with Reverberate, you don't get infinite Reverberates because the HOTH hasn't resolved yet to copy Reverberate twice.

October 7, 2016 11:56 a.m.

IzzetGod says... #4

RIGHT! Completely forgot Howl of the Horde is a sorcery!

October 7, 2016 11:59 a.m.

TheVectornaut says... #5

Howl of the Horde is a sorcery though so you can't play it in response to anything. You can go Howl of the Horde>Banefire>respond with Reverberate which should give 4 Banefire with 2 from Howl of the Horde and 1 from Reverberate directly. Or you can go Howl of the Horde>respond with Reverberate>Banefire which should give 5 Banefire with 2 from Howl of the Horde and 2 from Reverberate indirectly.

And it seems like my typing skills are too weak and this was already answered. /feelsbadman

October 7, 2016 12:09 p.m.

kryophyre says... #6

@ TheVectornaut

Wait you lost me at the 5 Banefires. How does that play out? If you use HotH on Reverberate doesn't that leaves you with 3 copies of Reverberate which results in 4 copies of Banefire?

October 7, 2016 12:17 p.m.

TheVectornaut says... #7

If Reverberate is cast in response to Howl of the Horde, Reverberate resolves first because the stack resolves from top to bottom. This means that Reverberate will resolve and copy Howl of the Horde before Howl of the Horde can resolve and start copying anything itself. This leaves you with 2 Howl of the Horde (1 from Reverberate) that each grant two copies of the next spell that will be played which should then be Banefire cast at sorcery speed when the stack is empty. You can't cast Reverberate after Howl of the Horde resolves because it will have nothing to target unless a single Banefire is cast before it (as in the first scenario).

October 7, 2016 12:47 p.m.

kryophyre says... #8

@ TheVectornaut

Oohhhh. Okay got it. Thanks for the info!

October 7, 2016 12:58 p.m.

MoGoose831 says... #9

Just got a hold on HotH and saw this post. What if you had something like Djinn Illuminatus that gave HotH flash? Could that then create an infinite loop?

If so what order would everything need to be played/put on the stack?

February 14, 2017 12:25 a.m.

Poetigger says... #10

Which of these do you use Pyromancer's Goggles with?

March 11, 2019 6:12 p.m.

kryophyre says... #11

@Poetigger

You'd probably use Pyromancer's Goggles to cast Howl of the Horde to give you the most number of duplicates since copying Banefire or Reverberate will only create one extra Banefire cast.

Also for future reference, you can put card names inside square brackets [ [ CardName ] ] without the spaces to link to the card so people can know immediately which cards you're talking about.

March 14, 2019 8:18 p.m.

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