How many damage would it do?
Asked by thegigibeast 9 years ago
If I have Pandemonium on the field, I have all my life points (20) and I cast Death's Shadow, would it even do damage to my opponent?
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
No. Death's Shadow would enter the battlefield as a 0/0 and die as a state-based action. Pandemonium's ability would use its last known information, which says it's a 0/0, so no damage can be dealt.
March 7, 2015 7:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
@ShamaLamaDingDong: It's important to note that Pandemonium's ability can still resolve completely even if the creature dies. The ability will simply use the creature's LKI as described above. Therefore, it doesn't matter if Death's Shadow dies before the ability resolves. What's significant is that it's a 0/0.
March 7, 2015 7:43 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
I don't mean to be pedantic, but it is a -7/-7 not a 0/0. To answer the follow on question raised by the fact that Death's Shadow's power is negative: as per 107.1b you can not deal negative damage.
107.1b Most of the time, the Magic game uses only positive numbers and zero. You can't choose a negative number, deal negative damage, gain negative life, and so on. However, it's possible for a game value, such as a creature's power, to be less than zero. If a calculation or comparison needs to use a negative value, it does so. If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead, unless that effect sets a player's life total to a specific value, doubles a player's life total, sets a creature's power or toughness to a specific value, or otherwise modifies a creature's power or toughness.
March 7, 2015 10:40 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #5
I don't think it's pedantic to point that out. The fact that numbers can be negative in equations is why Death's Shadow can end up bigger than 13/13 if you manage to have a negative life total (through Phyrexian Unlife for example). It's obvious that it's possible if you know that X in his ability can have a negative value, but counter-intuitive to players taught to ignore negative numbers.
March 7, 2015 11:14 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Good catch. I normally do make sure to write "power 0 or less," but writing it in P/T form must have interfered with that concept as I was writing.
The end result is, as you point out, the same. 0 damage can be dealt.
ShamaLamaDingDong says... #1
No. it would die before it resolves. Rule:
3/1/2010: If your life total is 13 or greater (and nothing else is boosting Death's Shadow's toughness), Death's Shadow is put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action.
March 7, 2015 7:42 p.m.