How does Jeskai combo works?

Asked by tristen21 7 years ago

I'm confused on how the rulings with Jeskai Ascendancy and Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper combo works. Will Jeskai untaps Noyan everytime a spell is casted and in effect have an infinite mana?

I watched a game and just after a few turns the opponent conceded the game and the one who has the Jeskai deck explained about the "loop".

Mat7itan says... #1

Because the effects of these cards happen at the same time on the stack (when you cast a non creature spell both of these things happen), and because they can't happen at the same exact time the controller of the card chooses the order in which they happen. It is like how multiple at the beginning of your upkeep cards work. For example if I have Triskaidekaphobia and Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and I'm at 11 life. Since these can't happen at exactly the same time I would have choose the order and choosing Oloro's ability first I would lose the game to the Trisk effect.

In the case of the two cards you are asking about you have the Noyan's effect go first to make the land you control into creatures and then untap them with the other ability. and you can do this for as many noncreature spells you have in your hand. SO yes you essentially have infinite mana.

June 14, 2016 10:09 p.m.

acbooster says... #2

The only way I can see it going truly infinite is if there's an outlet for the mana such as an Isochron Scepter with Twiddle under it so it can be recurred as many times as needed.

June 14, 2016 10:33 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #3

Usually Jeskai Ascendancy combo runs cards that cantrip anyway and then always draws the card from Ascendency's second ability in order to filter through the library faster. The deck used to be four color and run green for mana dorks. Apparently the version you saw runs Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper to make lands into creatures so that they untap with Jeskai Ascendancy's first ability.

Jeskai Ascendancy has two triggered abilities on it and Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper has one. If you cast an instant or sorcery all three abilities will trigger. When multiple things have triggered since the last time a player received priority they go on the stack in "Active Player, Non-Active Player" (APNAP) order. If a single player controls multiple triggers they decide the order that they go on the stack. Objects on the stack then resolve in First In Last Out (FILO) order with a round of priority between each object resolving.

The way that the combo would work with Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper is that you put the untap and buff trigger from Jeskai Ascendancy on the stack first, so that it resolves last. The order of the other two triggers matter little since they do not interact. By the time the untap trigger resolves you will have made a land into a creature. The untap trigger will allow you to untap that land and you will be able to tap it for mana again. As long as you are casting cheap spells that cantrip you should be able to continue the chain barring bad luck and getting progressively more mana each time since you are making more and more lands into creatures. In the end you will have decidedly finite mana and size of Land Creatures, but it should be sufficient to kill your opponent if all went well.

June 14, 2016 10:49 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #4

@Mat7itan: Your answer is a little confusing. "Happening on the stack" is a nontechnical description that could theoretically refer to several possibilities: abilities triggering, resolving, or even just existing. The idea you're trying to describe here is that both abilities trigger simultaneously. A single event or series of events can trigger any number of triggered abilities.

These abilities are then put onto the stack the next time a player receives priority. If multiple abilities have triggered, then the active player (the player whose turn it is) puts his or her abilities onto the stack first, then the remaining players put their abilities onto the stack in turn order. If one player controls multiple abilities, that player chooses the order in which those abilities are placed onto the stack.

June 14, 2016 11:13 p.m.

Just to add, since i haven't seen anyone else mention it:

If you played a land for the current turn, the moment it becomes a creature on that turn, it will be subject to summoning sickness, unable to tap again for mana.

June 15, 2016 4:14 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #6

Noyan Dar gives haste. I was going to mention the whole summoning sickness thing but noticed that fact.

June 15, 2016 4:29 p.m.

Oh he does doesn't he. xP Didn't see that little bit there.

June 15, 2016 4:44 p.m.

tristen21 says... #8

very clear Gidgetimer, thanks

June 15, 2016 10:59 p.m.

This discussion has been closed