How do these card's Interact? (Multiple Questions)
Asked by JANKYARD_DOG 7 years ago
First Question :
Board state:
Elusive Spellfist, Stormchaser Mage, and Zada, Hedron Grinder.
Stack:
Dance of the Skywise targeting Zada (no response from opposition)
Spellfist trigger
Stormchaser prowess trigger
*Note: Zada's spell copies do not trigger prowess.
The stack resolves backwards, this I know, but does the 'loses all abilities' clause a)Make Zada copy nothing, b) negates prowess and c)does the psuedo prowess effect of spellfist stick after the spell resolves
Second Question:
Regarding Harness the Storm and Send to Sleep (spell mastery to be specific), If I have only 2 spells in the Graveyard (1 being Sleep) and I cast from my hand a Sleep, using the effect to cast it; Which one, if any, achieves Spell Mastery?
dragonstryke58 says... #2
For your first question, note that Dance of the Skywise says base power and toughness 4/4. I believe any power/toughness changes through triggers and spell effects are not lost.
You would still end up with a blue Dragon Illusion named Elusive Spellfist that is a 5/4 with flying and can't be blocked (can't be blocked is not an ability) until end of turn and a blue Dragon Illusion named Stormchaser Mage that is a 5/5 with flying until end of turn and a blue Dragon Illusion named Zada the Hedron Grinder until end of turn.
May 2, 2016 9:05 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #3
Sorry for the double post, but from my understanding, the triggers from Elusive Spellfist and Stormchaser Mage are not lost. Once they trigger from the initial cast of Dance of the Skywise they exist independently of their source. Having their source lose the ability which triggered the ability in the first place will do nothing to prevent the trigger from resolving.
May 2, 2016 9:11 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
Keep getting ornithopters when I try to post. Neither answer given so far is correct though. Trying to post this to see if my post before was just too long.
May 2, 2016 10:07 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
All of the abilities trigger upon a spell being cast so they all trigger and go on the stack before any Dance of the Skywise resolves. Prowess and other abilities that give P/T boosts still apply after Dance of the Skywise resolves. Prowess will not trigger for any subsequent spells, but did trigger for the initial spell and will still have its effect.
The gatherer ruling about "Dance of the Skywise overrides all previous effects that set the creatures power or toughness to specific values. However, effects that set its power or toughness to specific values that start to apply after Dance of the Skywise resolves will override this effect." Is trying to explain layers in a simplified way. P/T boosts apply in a different layer than P/T setting effects and so do not interact for the most part.
May 2, 2016 10:08 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #6
Harness the Storm's interaction with spell mastery is interesting. Spell mastery is checked for as Send to Sleep is resolving, If at that time you have two or more instants or sorceries in your graveyard it will have the additional effect. Only the original will have the spell mastery effect, but not for the reasons stated in previous posts.
You cast the original Send to Sleep from your hand and Harness the Storm triggers and the trigger goes on the stack above Send to Sleep. When the trigger resolves you can cast the one from the graveyard. When you cast the one from the graveyard the original still has not resolved. As such the new one is on the stack above the original and will resolve first. When the Send to Sleep you cast from your graveyard resolves there will only be one instant or sorcery in your graveyard. When the one you cast from your hand resolves there will again be two and spell mastery will have its additional effect.
Additionally please post separate questions in separate threads. Hope I have been helpful. (turns out my ornithopters were because of a formatting error in this second half. Apparently formatting errors in long posts makes the site sad.)
May 2, 2016 10:11 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #7
@Gidgetimer: I'm confused. How was my answer not correct?
I'm fairly certain that after targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder with Dance of the Skywise both triggers of Elusive Spellfist(+1/+0 and can't be blocked) and Stormchaser Mage(prowess trigger) go onto the stack. Zada's trigger also goes onto the stack creating copies of Dance of the Skywise targeting both Elusive Spellfist and Stormchaser Mage.
Stack resolves first in, last out order.
You end up with a blue Dragon Illusion named Elusive Spellfist that is a 5/4 with flying and can't be blocked (can't be blocked is not an ability) until end of turn and a blue Dragon Illusion named Stormchaser Mage that is a 5/5 with flying until end of turn and a blue Dragon Illusion that is a 4/4 with flying (forgot that part) named Zada the Hedron Grinder until end of turn.
Also From Gatherer (Dance of the Skywise):
2/25/15 - Effects that modify the power or toughness of the creature, such as the effects of Giant Growth or Hall of Triumph, will apply to it no matter when they started to take effect. The same is true for counters that change the creatures power or toughness (such as +1/+1 counters) and effects that switch its power and toughness.
So even if you stacked Zada's triggers first, then Spellfist, and Stormchaser, you'd end up with the same result.
Maybe you misinterpreted my second post, so maybe I'll try and clarify.
Just because the Stormchaser Mage lost prowess due to the Dance of the Skywise, it doesn't remove the prowess trigger from the stack. It still resolves normally. Same goes for the Elusive Spellfist. Sure the resolution of Dance of the Skywise will make it that those abilities can no longer trigger until the end of turn, but they can still resolve.
May 2, 2016 11:14 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #8
Sorry for the double post but I meant to say casting Dance of the Skywise targeting Zada...
(why won't they let you edit your posts...)
May 2, 2016 11:17 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
dragonstryke58 Sorry I meant entirely correct to both questions. For some reason I thought you had addressed the second one and made a mistake. I realized after the fact that you had answered only the first question, and had answered it entirely correct. I had already triple posted to try to get it to work and didn't want to quad post to fix something in an offhand post trying to say that I would get back as soon as I could. I apologize for being mistaken.
GearNoir says... #1
From Gatherer:
The target creature will lose any abilities it may have gained prior to Dance of the Skywise resolving. Notably, if the creature is a face-down creature with morph or megamorph, you cant turn it face up, as it wouldnt have a morph or megamorph cost when face up (because its lost all abilities other than flying).
After Dance of the Skywise resolves, the creature can gain abilities as normal.
Dance of the Skywise overrides all previous effects that set the creatures power or toughness to specific values. However, effects that set its power or toughness to specific values that start to apply after Dance of the Skywise resolves will override this effect.
So my guesses:
Question #1: Zada, Spellfist and Stormchaser would trigger from casting Skywise; Zada would give you copies; once Skywise and its copies resolve, Spellfist and Stormchaser lose their triggers to Skywise.
Question #2: You would want the triggers to resolve Sleep first then Harness for both to work. The Sleep from your hand only would achieve mastery.
Again these are my guesses.
May 2, 2016 8:43 p.m.