Here's my question for today
Asked by Just_A_Friend 4 years ago
I'm building an oath breaker deck using Stolen Identity as my sig spell. Can I exile it from the command zone to pay its cipher cost?
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I have gone ahead and moved the thread for you.
TypicalTimmy's response is incorrect.
Cipher is not a replacement effect - it is a keyword that means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control." It does not replace the spell going to the graveyard; it merely removes the spell from the stack as part of its resolution, before the spell would go to the graveyard (akin to Time Spiral exiling itself before the rest of the ability resolves). It is also an optional effect.
Sending a card to the Command Zone is a replacement effect--if the card would change zones, you can send it to the Command Zone instead.
So, there are four ways this can go down:
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You do not use Cipher, you do not use the Commander replacement effect; the card ends up in your graveyard.
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You use Cipher and exile the card; since it is changing zones from the stack to exile, you use the commander replacement effect. Your card is now in the Command Zone--that means it was not exiled and not encoded on a creature, so it will not be copied when the creature deals damage (Rule 702.98c - The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield.).
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You use Cipher and exile the card; you do not apply the Commander replacement effect; your spell is exiled and encoded, so, if you deal damage with the creature, you will be able to copy the spell. Once you've exiled the spell with Cipher, if you do not apply the replacement effect, you cannot get it back to the Command Zone without something like Pull from Eternity .
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You do not use Cipher, you apply the commander replacement effect; the card is not encoded and is back in the Command Zone.
August 14, 2019 9:26 p.m. Edited.
All the answers so far are wrong.
In Oathbreaker, your signature spell always returns to your Command Zone as a replacement effect if it would leave the stack. This is not optional, and it happens regardless of whether the spell resolves, and regardless if the spell tells you to put the card anywhere else as it resolves.
From the official Oathbreaker rules page (https://weirdcards.org/oathbreaker-rules) —
- If your Oathbreaker’s signature spell would go to any zone other than the command zone or the stack, then it instead goes to the command zone. This takes precedence over other replacement effects such as buyback.
August 15, 2019 5 a.m.
Just_A_Friend says... #6
So, to sum up, I can cast the spell and cipher it onto a creature, then the spell returns to my command zone?
August 15, 2019 4:57 p.m.
You can cipher it onto a creature, but it is sent to the command zone instead of exile (per the Oathbreaker replacement effect rule Yesterday cited).
Since it is not exiled, it will not be encoded on the creature, so you will not get to create and cast a copy of the spell if that creature deals combat damage (Rule 702.98c, cited in my above, incorrect, answer).
Just_A_Friend says... #1
Awesome. I may have missed a key word when reading the card. Thanks for your help!
August 14, 2019 8:49 p.m.