flicker a Spell Queller
Asked by VexxValentine 7 years ago
okay lets say i have a Spell Queller on the field with my opponents [[collected company] exiled by queller. if i were to flicker quleer with Essence Flux will my opponent get to cast their spell and my trigger miss or since Essence Flux's ability is much like the interaction of flickering Master of Waves where the elementals wont die during the middle of the flicker trigger since the flicker resolves before the actual check of 0 toughness happens resulting in the tokkens not being destroyed; but here with quller it goes on the stack as Essence Flux target: queller: leaves field, 2nd ability triggers allowing opponent to recast coco, queller enters field: exiles coco or does this happen Essence Flux target queller: resolves queller leaves and then enters field leaving coco in exile forever or allows for opponent to recast
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
You completely execute Essence Flux's instructions before anyone gets to handle the triggers that occur during the resolution process. So you'll blink Spell Queller and both of its triggered abilities will trigger. You'll be able to place them onto the stack in whichever order you choose.
Note that you'll have to choose a target when you put the ETB ability onto the stack. This means you'll have to choose a spell that's already on the stack; Collected Company is still in exile at this time.
Regardless of how you order the triggers, your opponent will be able to cast Collected Company and you won't be able to exile it again.
If you wanted to permanently exile a target spell, you'd need to put Spell Queller onto the battlefield, then blink it in response to its own ETB ability. This will cause the LTB ability to resolve before the ETB ability, meaning that there won't be an exiled card for your opponent to cast and that the card that does eventually get exiled won't have a way to come back.
August 3, 2016 1:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
This is different from the Master of Waves case because Master of Waves does not involve two triggered abilities. It just relies on state-based actions not being performed until after Master of Waves has reentered the battlefield.
August 3, 2016 1:44 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
Please note that if there is only one spell on the stack with CMC 4 or less then you will have to use an until EOT flicker effect since the new ETB has to have a target and will resolve before the original ETB if the card is returned immediately.
August 3, 2016 1:47 p.m.
VexxValentine says... #5
okay so useing an Unsubstantiate or some form of unsummon effect once queller enters the field will permanently exile a card because of the stacking of abilities on the stack as etb, unsummon, resolve, ltb, resolve ltb then etb and then resulting in the spell being permanently exiled?
August 3, 2016 1:51 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
@Gidgetimer: "Have to" is somewhat misleading. Spell Queller entering the battlefield is not dependent on its ETB ability having available legal targets. It's perfectly legal for Spell Queller to enter the battlefield if there are no spells with CMC 4 or less to exile.
August 3, 2016 1:52 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
But if there is a valid target it must be targeted. I see nothing misleading at all about saying you must target the same spell with the second ETB. You do not get to haphazardly decided if you are going to target a legal target for an ETB. If able you HAVE TO. I find it more misleading to try to play these word games.
Yes any triggered abilities aren't required to have a target before the triggering event happens. If that were the case Afiya Grove being on the battlefield with no creatures would cause it's controller's upkeep to never start and break the game. This is absurd at best and idiotic at worst.
Yes if you unsummon Spell Queller before his ETB resolves the LTB will resolve first allowing them to cast nothing and then their original spell will be exiled with no way fot them to cast it at a later time.
August 3, 2016 2:11 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
I agree with that; I'm merely pointing out that your previous post has a different implication.
In if-then notation, your previous post reads:
1) IF the stack contains one spell with CMC 4 or less,
2) THEN you must use a return-at-EOT blink effect.
This is not true. You are required to choose a legal target if one is available, but you are not required to use a specific type of spell or ability if such a target would be available or unavailable. Your previous post would have been accurate if it hinged upon an "if you don't want to exile another spell" or something to that effect.
August 3, 2016 2:59 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
I'm sorry I thought that the implicit "to achieve this effect" was clear enough. If I could edit the original post I would, but alas can not and so will repost it with the intent more clear.
Please note that if there is only one spell on the stack with CMC 4 or less then you will have to use an until EOT flicker effect if you would like to permanently exile a spell since the new ETB has to have a target and will resolve before the original ETB if the card is returned immediately.
Gidgetimer says... #1
Since both abilities will trigger during the resolution of Essence Flux you get to choice how they go on the stack, however it the end it wont matter.
ETB on top resolving first- You will exile a spell on the stack with CMC 4 or less. Your opponent will then get the opportunity to recast CoCo.
LTB on top resolving first- Your opponent will get the opportunity to recast CoCo and it will go on top of the stack resolving before the ETB. ETB will resolve and you will exile a spell with CMC 4 or less.
August 3, 2016 1:38 p.m.