Do Sorcery/Instant and Planeswalker buffs count as +1/+1 counters?
Asked by Yz2000 5 years ago
I have a question in particular, involving Sharktocrab , who I've recently gotten in a booster pack.
His ability says: Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on Sharktocrab, tap target creature an opponent controls. That creature doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
I'd like to know if this applies only once for each set of counters, or for each individual +1/+1. Some examples are below.
Scenario 1: I use Primal Bellow , which gives +1/+1 for each forest I control. I have eight forests. Thus, the total buff is +8/+8. Does that mean that Sharktocrab 's ability is triggered eight times? And does that mean I would consider there being 8 +1/+1 counters on the card, or would it be considered one large '+8/+8' boost, lumped together?
Scenario 2: I use Nissa, Genesis Mage 's second Loyalty ability. −3: Target creature gets +5/+5 until end of turn. I'm not very sure if this would be a similar case. I figured Planeswalker Loyalty abilities might be slightly different from the first scenario, in some regard.
In general, I think I have some misconception on how buff/debuff counters work. This is partially due to the Adapt ability on other creatures, where they specify 4 +1/+1 counters. I'd be really grateful if someone were to clarify this with me, and also explain how Sharktocrab 's passive ability works. The rulings didn't say anything about that, when I referred to them.
Thank you.
Gidgetimer Thank you for the timely response! I'll take note of this in the future. Cheers!
January 25, 2019 6:29 a.m.
For examples of things that will actually place counters instead of buffs:
Forced Adaptation and Ring of Kalonia would each place a +1/+1 counter on Sharktocrab at the beginning of your upkeep. These would be actual counters, not temporary increases like the cards you listed. Each would trigger Sharktocrab 's second ability once (so if you have both on, you'd have two triggers).
Increasing Savagery is a spell that places counters. If cast from your hand, you'd get five +1/+1 counters, but because it's a single effect, it only triggers Sharktocrab once. Casting it again using flashback would get you ten counters and one trigger.
Rhythm of the Wild would give Sharktocrab riot, so if you cast Sharktocrab while Rhythm is on the battlefield, you would place a counter as it enters and trigger the second ability. Same with using Zameck Guildmage 's or Combine Guildmage 's ability to have a creature enter with a +1/+1 counter on it.
Vigor prevents damage and places counters instead. The counter-placing would trigger Sharktocrab once.
Compare Sharktocrab to Fathom Mage . Fathom Mage draws a card for each counter placed on it. Sharktocrab specifies "one or more," so each effect that places counters only triggers it once. Individual effects will still trigger it separately, though, so having the aforementioned Ring of Kalonia and Forced Adaptation on at the same time will each trigger it.
January 25, 2019 9:30 a.m.
@Kogarashi Thank you so much! This has been very useful. I've got one more question to ask, also regarding the counters.
I'm still very new to the game, and the person I play against most often has a deck focused on applying -1/-1 counters. How are these handled when used with +1/+1 ones? Do I remove both when it happens, or do I keep both counters on and have it even out?
January 26, 2019 9:02 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
One of the State-based Actions that are routinely checked and performed is that if a creature has both +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters an equal number of each are removed until only one type remains. Keep in mind again that counters are only placed if the effect specifies counters, and that other types of P/T changing counters (usually from older cards) are not included in this.
Blur of Blades and Battlegrowth WILL remove each other's counters.
Afflict WILL NOT remove the counter from Battlegrowth .
The counters from two Blur of Blades and the counter that Baron Sengir gives himself WILL NOT remove each other.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
Counters and other P/T boosting effects are separate things. A spell or ability does not put counters on a creature unless it uses the word "counters" in its text. Additionally Sharktocrab 's ability only triggers once each time counters are put on it, regardless of how many counters are placed at once.
January 25, 2019 6:19 a.m.