Do cards that makes casting other cards cheaper affect the CMC?

Asked by xseiber 8 years ago

First, let me clarify that I have not been playing enough MtG or long enough to know exactly all the rulings, so I apologize if this question makes people shake their heads or facepalm.

q-q

As an example of what I am saying in my topic question/title, for example I happened to have 3x Conduit of Ruin out on the field and have not cast a creature, yet. As per Conduit of Ruins' ability, if I want to cast my Oblivion Sower which is normally 6 CMC, I can now cast it for free, since each Conduit of Ruin makes the casting cheaper by 2 generic mana less. Say my opponent has a Chalice of the Void with 0 charges, therefore by extension of its ability, "Whenever a player casts a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell." with "0" being a number of charges it has on now. Would Chalice of the Void stop Oblivion Sower from hitting the field successfully?

Or to water it down some more, for clarity's sake. Imagine that Chalice of the Void has 1 charge counter, therefore it will counter anything with a CMC of 1 from being cast. I have 1x Ragemonger out, making all minotaur spells cost less. I attempt to play another Ragemonger, which would cost me only to play. Would Chalice of the Void stop my attempt to successfully play Ragemonger?

Out of pure logic, making something cheaper to cast does not change the CMC, though I could be wrong; unless a card effects states otherwise and affects the CMC. Though due to a disagreement with my friend, I decided to bank on the Tappedout collective's knowledge.

Drilnoth says... #1

The converted mana cost of a spell is not affected by anything that increases or decreases the cost of the spell. So, if you have 3 Conduit of Ruins in play, your Oblivion Sower will cost you 0 to cast, but it will still have a converted mana cost of 6.

Same thing in the Ragemonger scenario. The second Ragemonger still has a converted mana cost of 3.

January 6, 2016 12:14 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #2

Under normal circumstances, the CMC of a card will never change. (An exception being any spell with in its mana cost Fireball]).

To avoid potential confusion like this, there is a formula that is useful to determine what is and what isn't a mana cost:

Mana cost of the card you're casting + Any additional costs - Any cost reduction = The amount of mana that must be paid.

Example 1: You have a Ragemonger on the battlefield and you cast another Ragemonger.
+ No additional costs - = total mana that must be paid.

Example 2: You have 3 Conduit of Ruin on the battlefield and you cast an Oblivion Sower.
+ No additional costs - (Assuming it's the first creature you've cast) = Mana that must be paid.

Note, however, that the cards giving the cost reduction do not actually change the CMC of a card, they change what mana must be paid to successfully cast the card. The CMC (Converted Mana Cost) of Ragemonger will always be , and Oblivion Sower will always be .

So, to ultimately answer your question, Chalice of the Void would have to have charge counters on it to counter Ragemonger, and charge counters to counter Oblivion Sower.

January 6, 2016 12:49 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... #3

On a side note, it may be worth your time to, on some down time, peruse the Comprehensive Rules of Magic.

While you don't have to read it page for page, it does provide helpful insight if you're ever curious about certain rules or how a mechanic of the game works.

January 6, 2016 12:55 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #4

To be completely clear, since it hasn't been laid out yet: the Converted Mana Cost of a card is the sum of all the mana symbols printed in its cost. An symbol counts as the chosen value while it's a spell on the stack and 0 everywhere else.

The only way to change the CMC of a card (other than X-related situations) is to turn it into a copy of some other card.

January 6, 2016 10:12 a.m.