did rules about counters change? such as Rimescale Dragon
Asked by Sismir 2 years ago
I have always been told that if i have Rimescale Dragon on the field and placed a ice counter on a creature that counter only works while rimescale dragon is on the field... but i see so many examples of situations especially in MTG arena where this is not the case. is it only a rule on the battlefield or would Grolnok, the Omnivores counter work on cards he exile even if he die? :S
In both of your examples, the counters are just something for another ability to track. Neither of these counters mean anything without the card that uses them. What you might be seeing, however, is someone playing another copy later. If you put ice cou ters on four creatures and then lose your Rimescale Dragon, the creatures will untap as normal, but if you play another Rimescale Dragon then it's second ability will find all the creatures with ice counters and keep them from untapping at the upkeep (it won't re-tap them, but the next time they're tapped they'll stay that way while you have your dragon in play.
April 13, 2022 6:20 p.m.
Counters can work in a couple different ways depending on the card. As mentioned, both your examples will only work while the creature is around, but if a second copy of the creature is played it can use the counts. This method is used by a number of Legendary creatures like Grolnok, the Omnivore and Mairsil, the Pretender so that if you have them as your commander and they die, you can replay them and they'll still see the things they exiled, in contrast to things like Kaho, Minamo Historian or Rona, Disciple of Gix that forget about things they exiled since they're a new creature (even though they're the same card that exiled them).
Some other effects that use counters will grant an ability for as long as the counter is in play (as opposed to the source of the counter), or grant an ability in addition to the counter, where the counter doesn't actually do anything but is placed there as a physical reminder that the permanent gained the ability. Obsidian Fireheart is an example of the first, the blaze counter doesn't actually do anything, but if it is removed the land loses the upkeep trigger. The Book of Exalted Deeds is an example of the latter, even if the counter is removed the ability remains, but the counter serves as a reminder of which angel has the ability.
April 13, 2022 11:10 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
Sismir: Answers to your question have been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any follow-ups or corrections to be made, I marked one of them as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel best answers your question.
Rhadamanthus says... #1
It depends on exactly what we're talking about. Cards like Rimescale Dragon and Grolnok, the Omnivore make a counter with no inherent meaning in the rules, and it's the static ability of Rimescale/Grolnok itself that actually has the effect. If they aren't on the battlefield then the counters don't mean anything.
Other cards might make a counter that does have a special meaning in the rules (+1/+1, "first strike" or other ability counters), in which case the counter always means something. Another way is that if the effect that gives a counter meaning is created by the resolution of a spell or an activated/triggered ability, then the counter will also continue to mean something if the source goes away.
What are some of the specific examples you've seen in MTG Arena that don't seem to behave in the expected way? Knowing the details will help to explain why they work the way they do.
April 13, 2022 1:28 p.m.