Could Tilonalli's Skinshifter survive turning into a Ball Lightning?

Asked by Russ1981 5 years ago

If I turn Tilonalli's Skinshifter into a Ball Lightning, since both of their triggers happen at the end of the turn, can I stack the Tilonnali's Skinshifter's ability to shift back before Ball Lightning's sacrifice requirement triggers?

Caerwyn says... Accepted answer #1

This will not work.

The Ending Phase is broken into two steps - End Step and Cleanup Step (R. 512.1). The End Step occurs first.

Ball Lightning's effect triggers at the beginning of the end step; Tilonalli's Skinshifter's ability wears off the "end of turn", and such "end of turn" abilities end during the second part of the cleanup step (Rule 514.2).

As such, the End Step trigger from Ball Lightning will both trigger and resolve before the Cleanup Step begins and Tilonalli's Skinshifter reverts to its original form.

September 28, 2018 10:23 a.m. Edited.

Rhadamanthus says... #2

Unfortunately this doesn't work because they don't do their end-of-turn things at the same time. Tilonalli's Skinshifter will still be a Ball Lightning when it's time for the sacrifice ability to trigger and you aren't given a choice otherwise.

The End Phase of each turn has two separate steps: the end step and the cleanup step. Ball Lightning's ability triggers at the beginning of the end step, as it says. However, "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects wear off during the cleanup step, i.e. after the end step has already happened (the game needs to have these separate steps in order to make certain rules and mechanics work properly).

So in your example both the original Ball Lightning and the Tilonalli's Skinshifter who's pretending to be a Ball Lightning will have the "sacrifice Ball Lightning" ability trigger at the beginning of the end step. They'll both get sacrificed before the game moves on to the cleanup step.

September 28, 2018 10:30 a.m.

Russ1981 says... #3

Thanks, I forgot to take the 2 steps in the end phase into account. Oh well.

September 28, 2018 10:40 a.m.

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