Can Vizier of Remedies make a good combo with persist creatures?
Asked by ChandrasFollower 7 years ago
If you have Vizier of Remedies on the battlefield, and a persist creature, then you sacrifice the persist creature.Will it the return with a -1/-1 counter less, wich is no -1/-1 counters, or will it come back with the -1/-1 counter.
ChandrasFollower says... #2
Gidgetimer yeah thats what I thought as well but Vizier of Remedies says if a -1/-1 counter would be "put", and the persist ability dosent say anything about put a -1/-1 counter.So I still dont know it.
April 17, 2017 1:16 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #3
Entering the battlefield with counters is considered to be "putting"/"placing" those counters. Effects that care about putting counters on things will interact with objects that enter the battlefield with counters.
April 17, 2017 2:06 p.m.
lithium142 says... #4
the answer is yes.
this card works almost exactly like Melira, Sylvok Outcast with persist creatures. so if you have Murderous Redcap, or Kitchen Finks along with a sac outlet like say Spawning Pit. the result would be either infinite damage or infinite life respectively.
April 17, 2017 3:25 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being placed on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while its on the battlefield and also to an object thats given counters as it enters the battlefield.
Persist falls into the second category. Also, whoever templated Vizier of Remedies did a poor job making the wording line up with Doubling Season, Hardened Scales, Melira, Sylvok Outcast and so on.
April 17, 2017 9:21 p.m.
@Gidgetimer: To be fair, all those cards are different from each other from the begin with :) It's interesting that there are actually differences between Vizier of Remedies and Hardened Scales or Winding Constrictor, though, especially since those are rather recent cards.
April 18, 2017 7:20 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
I wouldn't be surprised if card templating was being tightened up to only use the word "put". It doesn't make sense to use two different rules-relevant technical terms ("put", "place") for the same action. However, we won't know for sure until the full article about Comprehensive Rules updates goes up.
April 18, 2017 10:47 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
BlueScope They all modify the action of placing counters. I agree with Rhadamanthus though, that they are probably changing all the templating to "put" even though the word they have used the most up to this point is "place".
April 18, 2017 11:18 a.m.
DragonChampions says... #10
I got lost here. Does it remove the -1/-1 counter or not?
April 28, 2019 4:02 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
Argh, I hate to be pedantic, especially when being pedantic seems to be what got you confused in the first place. However; there are rules distinctions that make the exact wording important.
The persist creature simply never had a counter put on it to begin with. With Vizier of Remedies out a persist creature that dies with no -1/-1 counters on it will simply come back to the battlefield without any counters on it.
April 28, 2019 8:19 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #12
@DragonChampions: This conversation is over two years old. Because of the way the Q&A section of the site works, the only way anyone will know that you posted here is if they posted here before and are still subscribed to the thread. If you have a question, it's best to just post a new question topic.
Gidgetimer says... #1
One less than one is in fact zero.
April 17, 2017 8:14 a.m.