Can I use the following Evolve trick?
Asked by vic 3 years ago
I have a Cloudfin Raptor with one +1/+1 counter and a Vigean Hydropon with all 5 counters on my board. If I play an Invisible Stalker, can I first move a counter from the Hydropon onto the Stalker (making it become 2/2), and then use the Stalker to trigger Evolve on the Raptor?
Tylord2894 says... #2
To elaborate on Gidge's response, the triggered ability that Evolve represents contains an intervening "if" clause. Any triggered ability that uses such a clause is phrased something like this, "When [something happens], if [something is true], then [do a thing]". A trigger like this checks the "if" condition when it triggers and resolves. It must be true at both times for the effect to work. This is notably different than a trigger that reads "When [something with a quality happens], [do a thing]." These kinds of triggers only check if the condition is true when triggering only.
Let's see some examples. Evolve is a great example of an intervening "if" trigger. Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, your creature with Evolve will trigger provided that the new creature's power or toughness is higher than your Evolve creature's. When that trigger tries to resolve, it will check the new creature's power and toughness again to make sure at least one of them is higher than the Evolving creature.
For the second type of trigger, let's use Mizzix of the Izmagnus. Her trigger reads "When you cast a spell with CMC greater than the number of experience counters you have, you get an experience counter." Unlike an intervening "if" trigger, Mizzix's trigger only cares about the number of counters that you have when you cast the spell. In this way, you can cast Serum Visions and then Opt while you don't have any exp. counters in order to get two counters instead of one.
Hope this helps!!
October 22, 2020 11:44 a.m.
TheRealSpecialK says... #3
I'll add to this to even further clarify. If you have out something like Renata, Called to the Hunt, then creatures enter WITH an additional counter. Because they are entering with a counter, effects that look at power/toughness see them having increased power/toughness. Cloudfin Raptor will see the creature having increased power/toughness - similarly, Terror of the Peaks will do more damage. However, in your situation, the abilities in question (Evolve and Graft) look at the creature as it entered the battlefield. You can reorder the triggered abilities on the stack any way you want, but it wouldn't matter because it won't change the power and toughness Invisible Stalker had as it entered the battlefield. Had you had you something like Renata, it would have been a different story.
October 22, 2020 1:14 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
Terror of the Peaks uses the power of the creature as it resolves. It does work with graft shenanigans. Everything else said in the elaborations is correct, I was just trying to answer the question is the simplest way possible.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
The Invisible Stalker did not have greater power or toughness than the Cloudfin Raptor when it entered the battlefield. So Evolve did not trigger.
October 22, 2020 9:43 a.m.