Can I exile copies of permanents using Karn Liberated?

Asked by BubbleMahn 5 years ago

Let's say I have Jace, Architect of Thought out, and I use his (-8) ability, search my library for Omniscience, exile it and then successfully play a copy of it (meaning not countered). Afterwards, I play Karn Liberated.

  1. Using Karn's (-3) ability, am I able to exile the copy of Omniscience even though it's only a copy of a permanent? (Pretty sure I can because it's still a permanent.)

  2. If I use Karn's (-14) ability later in the game (after exiling the copy of Omniscience), does that copy of Omniscience come in under my control? Wouldn't the copy just cease to exist, similar to the way you can make a token stop existing if you use an Unsummon on it?

I guess I mean to ask, can I bring back exiled copies of permanents using Karn Liberated?

filledelanuit says... Accepted answer #1

So first of all you are under the impression that Jace, Architect of Thought lets you cast a copy of the spell. To my knowledge there is no way to create a copy of a non permanent spell. Jace exiles the cards and lets you cast them without paying their mana cost. So you would just cast Omniscience and it would exist as a non token permanent on the battlefield. If you exile it with Karn Liberated and the restarted the game you would start the game with Omniscience .

To answer you second question; You are correct in that if Karn exiles a token then it will cease to exist due to state based actions and you will not get it. If there is a token in a non battlefield zone then when state based actions are checked it will cease to exist.

October 7, 2014 9:32 p.m.

BubbleMahn says... #2

@lordoftheshadows Oops, I totally misread Jace's (-8), thanks for the help. I was likely thinking of Spelltwine while writing and mixed em up.

October 7, 2014 9:44 p.m.

Seraphicate says... #3

I do not see the word "copy" in Jace, Architect of Thought 's -8 ability; I have no idea where you're getting that word from.

October 7, 2014 9:45 p.m.

BubbleMahn says... #4

I know, I misread it.

October 7, 2014 9:49 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #5

Well, tokens do cease to exist when they're in zones other than the battlefield, but there are two more significant things about this case.

First, a token that has left the battlefield cannot move to another zone afterward, even if the second zone change would occur before SBAs. For example, Cloudshift could not return a token to the battlefield.

Second, Karn Liberated 's ultimate always specifies "cards." Tokens are not cards, so the ult doesn't interact with tokens at all.

October 7, 2014 9:50 p.m.

BubbleMahn says... #6

I'm definitely going to remember that while deck building.

October 7, 2014 11:08 p.m.

This discussion has been closed