Can I activate Time Sieve's ability using the Myr Retriever combo?
Asked by Nightdragon779 8 years ago
For those of you who don't know, the Myr Retriever combo uses Heartless Summoning and 2 Myr Retrievers to infinitely bounce them from graveyard to hand to battlefield to graveyard and on and on, triggering infinite etb effects and leave effects. I want to know if you can sacrifice them using Time Sieve's ability if they enter as 0/0s? (This creates infinite turns and I have a deck that would make use of it)
Raging_Squiggle says... #2
As stated, one of the state based actions that are checked is if a creature has a toughness of 0 or less. State based actions are always checked whenever a player would receive priority. If a creature has 0 or less toughness, it is put into its owner's graveyard as a state based action.
When your Myr Retriever enters the battlefield, state based actions are checked before you get priority and sees it as a 0/0 creature, sending it to your graveyard. This happens before you would ever get the chance to activate Time Sieve's ability.
February 22, 2016 12:50 a.m.
No, they die as 0/0s before you have a chance to sacrifice them
February 22, 2016 4 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Note that even with an anthem effect you wouldn't be able to do this. Costs must be paid in full. No abilities are put onto the stack, much less resolve, during the casting process. You need to be able to sacrifice five artifacts simultaneously.
February 22, 2016 8:55 a.m.
You cannot use Time Sleve's ability to sac them.When a creature enters the battlefield, all its effects are activated.
after its abilities are activated, then any player has the chance to play a spell or activated ability after that creature enters the battlefield. The result of a creature having 0 toughness, activates before
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO TAP TIME SLEVE to play Time Sleve's
activated ability
Therefore, you cannot sac them to play Time Sleve's ability, the Myr Retriever(s) are already independent variable your graveyard.
February 22, 2016 11:22 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #7
Note that if a creature has an ability that happens when entering the battlefield or graveyard, it is a triggered ability. Activated abilities are written as "cost:effect". Also, state based actions aren't activated they just kinda happen. Aside from that, you get the gist of it.
February 22, 2016 11:33 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
As Squiggle said, any abilities that happen automatically, including on ETB, are triggered abilities.
But the fact that triggered abilities trigger appropriately isn't really what's at question here. What's important is how the activation cost for Time Sieve's ability can be paid. Or, more specifically, how it can't be paid incompletely or over time.
A creature dying for having 0 or less toughness is also not an ability. It's a state-based action. It doesn't use the stack, and it actually happens before triggered abilities are put onto the stack.
February 22, 2016 1:06 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
Please remember to select an answer to remove this question from the active queue.
Draugo says... Accepted answer #1
You would need some kind of anthem effect to keep them from dying when they enter the battlefield. Before any player gets priority State Based Actions are checked and for example all creatures with 0 toughness die. So your Retrievers will be in the graveyard before you can do anything.
February 22, 2016 12:27 a.m.