Archfiend of Depravity and Liliana, Defiant Necromancer  Flip

Asked by nismonate81 8 years ago

My opponent has an Archfiend of Depravity and I have Liliana's emblem in the command zone. Would I not gain back the creatures that are sacrificed (and therefore die) because of the timing of the sacrifice is at the same time any creatures that have died would return?

FancyTuesday says... #1

"At the beginning of the next end step" delayed triggers only trigger once each turn, so those sacrificed to Archfiend of Depravity would not be brought back by Liliana, Defiant Necromancer's emblem that turn. Depending on how you stacked the triggers, if you have other creatures coming back from Liliana's trigger you could avoid having to sacrifice those creatures by having it resolve after the Archfiend's.

September 18, 2015 11:33 p.m.

You would get the creature, but not during this turn's end step. The trigger will be created for the next end step to begin. In this case, you would get a creature that an opponent sacrificed in his end step at the beginning of your next end step.

Compare this entry from the Judge's blog while I look into the Comprehensive Rulebook.

September 19, 2015 10:57 a.m.

"513. End Step"

"513.3. If a permanent with an ability that triggers "at the beginning of the end step" enters the battlefield during this step, that ability won't trigger until the next turn's end step. Likewise, if a delayed triggered ability that triggers "at the beginning of the next end step" is created during this step, that ability won't trigger until the next turn's end step. In other words, the step doesnt "back up" so those abilities can go on the stack. This rule applies only to triggered abilities; it doesn't apply to continuous effects whose durations say until end of turn" or "this turn." (See rule 514, "Cleanup Step.")"

Emphasis mine.

September 19, 2015 11:47 a.m. Edited.

Oops, I messed up who's sacrificing the creature... doesn't really change much though.

Liliana's emblem will return creatures dying during the end step step at the beginning of the end step of the next turn.

September 19, 2015 12:07 p.m.

nismonate81 says... #5

So just to confirm was FancyTuesday's answer is incorrect or correct as well. I have a disability, I'm a bit slow at times.

September 19, 2015 12:34 p.m.

Triforce-Finder says... Accepted answer #6

Yes and no.

You asked if you get the creatures back. His answer only covered if you get the creatures back this turn, not if you get them back at all.

His answer was a partial one that - while technically correct - does not answer your question the way you asked it, and could be misleading too.

September 19, 2015 12:44 p.m.

FancyTuesday says... #7

Sorry, I did not mean to be misleading or partial. In saying "that turn" I meant to imply that it would come back the next turn, and in reading the question the line "the same time" lead me to believe he was asking specifically about that same turn. So allow me to be completely explicit with what happens:

Liliana, Defiant Necromancer creates a delayed trigger for every creature that dies that says "return [this creature] to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step." If your opponent blocks your Grizzly Bears with his Runeclaw Bear and they both die during combat Liliana's emblem will create delayed triggers for both that will return them to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step.

The end of your turn rolls around and all EOT triggers go on the stack. I was wrong about this above, because you don't get to (or need to) order the triggers. Players put triggers they control on the stack in APNAP order (Active Player Non-Active Player), so you put all your Liliana triggers on the stack and then your opponent will put their Archfiend of Depravity trigger on the stack. His trigger is on top and resolves first, so say you control 3 Storm Crows you have to sacrifice down to 2 Storm Crows, and Liliana creates another delayed trigger for the sacrificed Storm Crow that will go on the stack at the beginning of the next end step. As made clear in the rule Triforce-Finder cites, these triggers only get one opportunity to go on the stack per turn, and that point has already passed on this turn. Then your Lili triggers resolve and bring back Runeclaw Bear and Grizzly Bears under your control.

September 19, 2015 5:39 p.m. Edited.

This discussion has been closed