Deck Tags are Outdated
Posted on May 18, 2019, 1:18 p.m. by DarkStarStorm
I have to label any creature silver bullet deck "Birthing Pod" because the tags are just that old.
Missing: Ad Nauseam, Izzet Phoenix, Value Engine, Bogles (the existing tag is called Aura Hexproof, which hasn't been used since early 2014), the list goes on and on and on.
This system should be not unlike YouTube's. Any person can type in their own tags. That way it no longer falls on the devs to update them. Once implemented, TappedOut should be able to look at the general layout of cards in the deck and suggest some tags. Is someone running Tana and Tymna as their commander with Birthing Pod? Suggest the tag that most people with that card selection use, "Blood Pod."
The virtue of this system is that bad tags will never see the light of day. If someone puts the name of their deck in the tags, then their ineptitude will prevent the deck from becoming popular enough to throw that tag into the suggested. This system is community-enforced and eventually becomes self-sufficient.
if people could make their own tags, there will be plenty of bad tags seeing the light of day. it also makes it much harder for people to search for decks, because oftentimes people can't agree on what to call a specific archetype. some people like the term "affinity", i prefer "robots". some people like "hardened scales affinity", i prefer "hardened modular", just as a couple examples.
i personally also much prefer "aura hexproof" to "bogles". just makes more sense in actually describing what the deck does. Slippery Bogle is just 1 card in the deck, and to someone who is unfamiliar with the archetype, "aura hexproof" explains the game plan immediately, whereas just calling it Slippery Bogle does not.
May 18, 2019 1:43 p.m.
Bad tags exist regardless. You'll see someone with a budget putting Revised cards in their "modern, competitive, casual, aggro, control" deck. In the end, those decks will rarely become popular, meaning the majority consensus will win out in the end.
Hardly anyone calls affinity Robots, and I have NEVER seen anyone call Hardened Scales "Hardened Modular." Those are really bad examples that only only prove my point further. Again, the majority will win out.
If someone is unfamiliar with the archetype, then they won't be using this system anyway, simple as that. Bogles has been the more popular name for about four years now, and this is coming from someone who has played the deck since Reid Duke's 2013 run with the deck.
May 18, 2019 1:54 p.m.
i've seen lots of people use "robots", because affinity decks don't actually use the affinity mechanic anymore. also seen lots of people use "hardened modular", because the deck was built around abusing modular. so i dont think those examples prove your point at all.
as for "modern, competitive, casual, aggro, control", thats not bad tags, its a bad combination of tags because they directly contradict each other. different animal entirely imo. i also don't see what relevance a decks popularity has. unpopular decks can still have good tags just like popular decks could still have bad tags.
May 18, 2019 2:04 p.m.
If a deck has poor tags then it won't show up on searches. You're also trying to critique a system to fix the five year-old tags without suggesting an alternative. If my idea is so bad, then what is yours? I'm open to anything that doesn't put all of the responsibility on the devs to constantly update and can stay current.
Is it really so bad if there are redundant "Aura Hexproof" and Bogles tags? No it's not. It's waaay better than Izzet Phoenix players having to tag their deck as "Storm!"
May 18, 2019 2:33 p.m.
a deck will show up in any search that contains tags used for the deck. peoples opinion on the tag doesn't matter. if i search for "aura hexproof", i'll find all decks using that tag, regardless of whether the decks or tag are "popular".
just because i havent suggested an alternative, doesn't mean your idea is suddenly viable. i'm not sure why you even brought that point up.
phoenix players don't "have" to do anything, let alone tag their deck as "storm".
the simplest solution here is simply for the devs to add new hubs as they are created.
May 18, 2019 3:04 p.m.
I agree with DarkStarStorm if people were able to make their own tags the most popular tags would rise to the top and those tags would be the ones used by the announcers for magic events and those announcers tend to call "affinity: affinity, "boggels" boggels and so forth I'm not sure why you Ugin420 are fightingDarkStarStorm on this. saying some tags are "bad" or "good" is irrelevant and users being able to make their own tags would only help people search for the decks they are trying to find. Just my 2 cents though
May 19, 2019 12:01 a.m.
Exactly. Ugin420 is acting like what I'm suggesting is not a problem, when there clearly is. The tags are five years old and are extremely lacking. What he suggested, waiting for the devs to update them, IS WHAT WE HAVE DONE FOR FIVE YEARS. It's clearly not working. This system would benefit the devs, since they wouldn't need to worry about updating the tags.
Letting the more popular archetype name is already how archetypes earn their name. This is a parallel to how it works in real life. Izzet Phoenix was originally called "Turbo Thing," and over time the new name won out. If you want to call affinity "robots" then that is your prerogative. Under the current system you're not allowed to, so if anything you should be on my side here.
May 19, 2019 1:08 a.m.
i did not suggest "waiting for the devs to add more tags", i said "the devs should add more tags". there is a difference. i'm saying the devs should be more vigilant in keeping the site updated.
May 19, 2019 1:15 a.m.
One note is that we're pretty vigilant but we don't really receive many requests to actually update anything
May 19, 2019 10:46 a.m.
I dunno, I think general tags work better than very specific detailed ones, it means you get more views on your decks, more eyes looking and helping, rather than people searching a specific subset of decks in order to find yours. Having more broad, generalised tags also introduces less experienced players to new ideas, whereas you would need to have a pre-existing knowledge of what izzet phoenix is, in order to find more izzet pheonix decks. It is what it is, and I think it works.
May 19, 2019 11:52 p.m.
yeaGO I'm unsure where to ask for such a thing. I've wanted "Silver Bullet" and "Value Engine" for years now. Izzet Phoenix should definitely also be on the list.
May 20, 2019 4:48 p.m.
These are added.
I made a note near the hub selection form so people know how to suggest things. Ideally you could also provide descriptions for these so I can add them to the hub page.
May 20, 2019 5:06 p.m.
Thank you so much! You are the best. If you don't mind, could you also add "Spellslinger"? The Izzet Phoenix player suggested it, and I could see the tag being used for quite a few formats (Pauper, EDH, Modern, maybe Legacy).
I'm seriously stoked about retagging my decks.
May 20, 2019 5:57 p.m.
Sure, do you think you could type up a brief description of these
May 20, 2019 6:03 p.m.
I'll do that as soon as I get home a bit later this afternoon. Should I post that here or PM you?
May 20, 2019 6:05 p.m.
This archetype uses a suite of tutors to fetch a narrow answer from a wide selection of one or two-of cards, called "Silver Bullets". Examples: Kiki-Evolution in Modern, Nic Fit in Legacy, or Yisan, the Wandering Bard in Commander.
Based around instants and sorceries, a spellslinger deck uses effects that trigger on spellcasts to pull ahead. This can play aggressively with cards like Nivix Cyclops or Niv-Mizzet, Parun to garner card advantage.
A broad term to encompass decks that utilize a combination of cards with repeatable effects to generate card advantage. These can range from recurring Strip Mine with Crucible of Worlds to casting Eerie Interlude with Eternal Witness in play.
May 20, 2019 11:21 p.m. Edited.
I just noticed a typo that made it through! Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is called the WanderING Bard. My apologies!
May 20, 2019 11:54 p.m.
DarkStarStorm and/or yeaGO, whoever might be interested: I'm trying to keep A Complete Hub Glossary for TappedOut up to date. I just finished my own descriptions for the hubs you listed (before reading this thread), but I can modify them as needed.
May 22, 2019 3:50 p.m.
legendofa would you be willing to help maintain them for the site? If so I could provide access
May 22, 2019 3:58 p.m.
awesome, check your profile icon up top for the admin link and check the hubs section. feel free to post on my wall if you have any questions about that interface
May 22, 2019 5:56 p.m.
legendofa Would you mind if I helped where I could? This is a topic that I have been passionate about for quite some time.