Universes Beyond: TWD 2?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Feb. 25, 2021, 4:42 p.m. by Coward_Token
Article: "Magic's Voyages to Universes Beyond"
Since I didn't like the Walking Dead cards I'm not looking forward to this. (And honestly, I'm not enthusiastic about Forgotten Realms either.)
Thoughts? At least they don't seem to be going for functionally unique yet prohibitively expensive Secret Lair cards this time.
I think I'm with pleasant kenobi on this subject... as long as they are not mechanically unique and fairy available I guess its fine...... I think it was done best with the Godzilla Ikoria cards with them just being skins/alternate artwork.
February 25, 2021 5:33 p.m.
I guess I don't care, since it's pretty much separate from "core" MTG, but honestly I would not like to play with or against those cards. Too weird, totally breaks any immersion of MTG flavor. And I definitely think it's an obvious money grab.
February 25, 2021 6:39 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #5
Some quick thoughts: 1. Not a fan, I think it’s dumb and I feel like overall it lessens the MtG universe. 2. I don’t care, as it seems likely they will continue making regular magic cards and I’ll be able to continue on with my life as normal. 3. Once Hasbro finishes hitting “Battleship: the movie”-levels of burnout,they’ll sell WotC to someone who cares about its roots more and we’ll correct again. The Harley Davidson scenario comes to mind. I think we’re currently at the “we moved all our manufacturing to India and are producing pretty shoddy cycles for huge (and very temporary) profits” point. Maybe the Nike story is better; we’re currently painting “Just Do It” on literally anything that a high schooler might want to buy...only to later dial back on product saturation. I could easily be dead-wrong though. These crossovers have huge followings and are going to be a lot of fun for a ton of people. Just not my bag.
February 25, 2021 7:58 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #6
Printing unique effects on extremely limited print run cards is rife for abuse. Theyre already tangoing with the secondary market.
Im only proxying cards from now on. You can sell this shit to other whales, Im not investing in it any more. Gets less appealing the more IP crossovers they talk about.
February 25, 2021 8:12 p.m.
FormOverFunction - I doubt we will see a Harvey Davidson situation--Wizards is going to control too much of Hasbro's IP. Per the investor meeting today, Wizards is going to be developing new products (video games and table top games) for various franchises like Transformers, GI Joe, My Little Pony, etc.
It's less "AMF bought Harley then ran it into the ground" and more "AMF bought Harley then gave Harley a number of their other product lines, making it incredibly difficult for Harley to ever escape the numerous entanglements they had with their parent company."
Back on topic, I am not overly fond of the emersion-breaking nature of these products and wish they would have just stuck with the way the Godzilla cards were done (i.e. making them effectively official alters of real cards--or cards that might be real one day, even if not real yet).
That said, there are lots of other interesting things that Wizards said they would be doing during their presentation today. Most notably for Magic, this year is going to have more Magic releases than prior years--if successful, we can expect to see this level of product release moving forward in subsequent years.
February 25, 2021 8:21 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #8
Good call Caerwyn. One big upside of this is that it might push more people in the direction of making themely decks like I enjoy. Someone mentioned “classic magic” and I think that’s extremely likely; both informally and Officially(tm).
February 25, 2021 8:56 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #9
I know I'm in the minority, but I like this.
No reason Jace would not visit middle earth or something like that and it fits the setting of the multiverse. Actually looking forward to Frodo's journey to Llanowar. And yes, I do understand this is a cash grab. Let's wait and see the actual execution.
February 26, 2021 5:42 a.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #10
If they had a silver border, there would be no issue.
February 26, 2021 10:33 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #11
I liked the idea of “official alters” because (a) alters are wonderful, and (b) good alters are 100% out of financial reach of most people (along with the general dangers of doing direct business with strangers online). Silver borders would also fix a lot of my discomfort with the situation. My wife, who works in art and who’s generally smarter than me, says that this is a generally positive and growth-focused thing that does no harm...and she’s probably mostly right. Still, I can’t shake the feeling that she wouldn’t have some similar feelings if the new version of The Stand she was watching suddenly had Jayce and Chandra slinging some spells around because it’s okay to mix the stories because they have some supernatural overlap. It’s all going to be fine...I just feel like this is going to end up being one of those embarrassing periods in MtG’s past. Like Mirrodin and all its high tech telescopes and ray guns and $#!+. ;p
February 26, 2021 11:09 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #12
I hope they make a Gandalf that automatically fights any/all white wizard creatures that are already in play.
February 26, 2021 9:06 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #15
sergiodelrio: That comment without content in the comment stream read hilarious. Totally true though.
February 27, 2021 5:59 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #16
*context instead of content. Auto-correct struck again.
February 27, 2021 6 a.m.
I'm conflicted on these kinds of sets myself.
I, like many, disliked that the walking dead was brought into the game as well as the implantation of it. Im not really excited about the warhammer40k and LOTR sets coming out either.
I dont know why but I dont have as much of a problem with the forgotten realms set as I feel its world at least fits, thematically, into the mtg universe. There are multiple races shared between worlds, magic exists in the forgotten realms, they have established planes, monstrous creatures of all sorts and various people willing to take up arms against evil, from strong willed 'everypeople' to legendary heroes. I know I can't wait to have Jarlaxle at the helm of my dimir elf rogue deck XD.
I guess many of the same points can be made for LOTR, but for some reason I just can't feel the same about that set.
I do feel in general WoTC is branching out way too much, the meme at the top of this post says it perfectly.
February 27, 2021 10:19 a.m.
ShiltonCDXX - I would say that the Forgotten Realms are fundamentally different because they are also made by Wizards. Both D&D and Magic share the same set of design parameters and themes. Both properties are ever-increasingly inclusive. Both exist in similarly optimistic fantasy worlds, where the evil is never overly grim, and you can always count on the heroes prevailing. Both have similar levels of spell casting and magic, done via similar, rather overt mechanisms. Finally, both already have established multiverses where individual planes have very different takes, be it Kaladesh from Dominaria or Ebberon from Faerûn.
They complement one another, which is why the Ravnica and Theros books slotted well into D&D. Sure, I’m not going to have Polukranos himself show up in my homebrew D&D... but I can easily use its stat block sans name as a boss.
Warhammer 40k and LotR clash with Wizards’ multiverse.
40k is focused heavily on being grim-dark, and it’s lore is full of rather bigoted views of marginalised people Magic and D&D have been trying to celebrate. Plus, it has issues with having started one of its “good” factions as a satire of fascism... but having lost the joke at some point, developing their “good” team into an effective celebration of fascism.
LotR - franchise I personally love - caries a lot of weight to it. It is, in every sense, High Fantasy, whereas Wizards occupies a more middling tier somewhere between High Fantasy and Sword and Sorcery Pulp Fantasy (i.e. the original Conan books). It had magic, but that magic is subtle - you do not folks running around casting Fireball in the novels. Though there are overlap between LotR and Magic’s themes, they approach the themes in a very different manner. LotR does so with the full might of literature - exceptional uses of evocative language to drive home complex ideas. I love Wizards, but masters of literary tools they are not, and they focus more on letting the players develop the world than on conveying a particular philosophical viewpoint to the players. Before someone mentions Wizards is trying to convey a more inclusive philosophy, I would suggest they are more making their worlds more inclusive, so people of any gender, race, etc. can feel comfortable developing a Wizards world they can see themselves in.
To sum, Wizards’ own properties are thematically and mechanically similar, and have been successfully crossed over in the past. Once you expand outside of Wizards’ intellectual property, however, you are now adapting words that work very differently and have very different themes. Their inclusion feels jarring in a manner the Forgotten Realms does not.
February 27, 2021 12:07 p.m.
Important part of this post: Is anyone going to be using this to get into new franchises? I know a decent amount about LotR and almost nothing about WH40K. When they get released, do you think these products would be a good bridge to other franchises?
Me pontificating: I'm not thrilled about this, but I'm trying to to see it as a positive. My favorite sets are the completely unique and original ones, that don't draw on history (Amonkhet, Ixalan) or a general fantasy flavor (Dominaria). There's nothing wrong with those planes, and I don't dislike them, but I don't get the feeling of discovery I do with others. Alara and Mirrodin, while they might share philosophical and design origins with other IPs, are unique in their execution and feel. When WotC announces a plane that I know nothing about and can't learn about from a history book, the feeling of anticipation drives me. I'm not saying that Universes Beyond is lazy or a bad idea, but at this early stage, I'm just not feeling as interested in them.
February 27, 2021 12:47 p.m.
I love it. Bring on the new IPs!! If things literally get to the point of that comic strip in the OP I will absolutely love it. I hope they start making whole unique card sets based in popular IPs as often as standard sets.
February 27, 2021 8:16 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #22
Im considering liquidating my collection and moving to a different hobby.
February 27, 2021 8:58 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #23
I hope you enjoy your future of hyper exclusive must purchase to be competitive Secret Lair crossover IPs that kill formats one by one.
February 27, 2021 8:59 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #24
My goal is to not be a killjoy for anyone seeing their favorite property being turned into a game they enjoy while I'm getting the feeling that elements of what I love about my favorite property are being sacrificed to accomplish it. My beef is with the company, not with the players that are excited about it. But I don't like it. I will be staying away from the crossover products.
March 1, 2021 8:27 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #25
golgarigirl has perfectly encapsulated my feelings on this. I want people to have fun, and I like having people I can play a game that I like with... I’m just going to have to focus doubly on not being an idiot at people who try to turn the table into a damn Metroid game.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
Not the worst, but certainly not the best. I wish it weren't happening, but given it is I intend not to be too mad--and I'm sure some good things will come of it.
February 25, 2021 4:59 p.m.