Conspiracy: Take the Crown Spoiler Thread

Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum

Posted on Aug. 10, 2016, 11:09 a.m. by GoldGhost012

We officially have our first Conspiracy: Take the Crown card!

Image (Apologies, am on mobile)

Kaya, Ghost Assassin mana symbol 2mana symbol wmana symbol b

Planeswalker - Kaya

0: Exile Kaya, Ghost Assassin or up to one target creature. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of tour next upkeep. You lose 2 life.

-1: Each opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.

-2 Each opponent discards a card and you draw a card.

5


Conspiracy: Take the Crown Information

Code: CN2

Release Date: August 26th, 2016

Cards: 221

DarkLaw says... #2

I think that Kaya will be a card for commander and nothing else (limited doesn't count). Personally, I'd hoped that she was esper colors.

August 10, 2016 11:11 a.m.

CheeseBro says... #3

here is the pic:

the flavor is real!

August 10, 2016 11:14 a.m.

CheeseBro says... #4

when she becomes a ghost, making her immune for a short period of time, but takes its toll after a while. FLAVOR!

also, i love how she has no + abilities but can always gain back loyalty.

August 10, 2016 11:16 a.m.

Snake_Oil says... #5

It's really refreshing to see a walker with no plus abilities!

Speaking of refreshing, that 0 ability is GREAT -- You either refresh Kaya's counters or remove a threat OR flicker one of your own creatures to exploit ETB. Those other two abilities are nice little utility pieces -- drain and draw.

I'm going to get a copy ASAP for EDH. Might even consider Abzan colours for Doubling Season -- Though that might be a touch pointless for a utility piece like Kaya...

August 10, 2016 11:18 a.m.

DarkLaw says... #6

My problem with her is how slow she is.

August 10, 2016 11:23 a.m.

Phaetion says... #7

My first thought for Kaya was a Flicker deck piloted by Dromar, the Banisher. Esper flicker got a new toy. Too bad W/B are the colors I avoid nowadays.

August 10, 2016 11:36 a.m.

Atony1400 says... #8

Can I say, "WHOOP, There it is!"

Also, i hate how she's Orzhov, we already have 3 Sorins in that color combo!

August 10, 2016 12:38 p.m.

DarkLaw says... #9

"Guys, we need to make a part of the planeswalker stick out of the frame just to show that we can. But the art for the card doesn't have any good parts to choose. Any suggestions?"

"What about her hair?"

"Perfect, Harold!"

August 10, 2016 12:42 p.m.

iBleedPunk says... #10

First off, DarkLaw is on point Cx

Secondly, I am pretty disappointed with this Planeswalker. She can blink, but she isn't in Roon of the Hidden Realm's colors so that's a no go. I can also deal with the fact there are no +1 or +2 abilities but I am thrown off with the fact her -1 and -2 are....well....kinda useless.

But these are only assumptions on my behalf and only time will tell if she will be useful

August 10, 2016 1 p.m.

Yay spoilers!

I like her, she's multi focused which is rare in walkers.

August 10, 2016 1:24 p.m.

Monsmtg says... #12

Sub

August 10, 2016 1:26 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #13

The most powerful thing about Kaya is that both her -1 and -2 hit all your opponents with disadvantage while gaining you advantage. This is exactly the format she was designed for: Multiplayer Draft. She's less impactful in 1-v-1, but she shines in multiplayer.

August 10, 2016 1:53 p.m.

Too bad she isn't going to be in Standard, I'd love to play her with some Reflector Mage!

August 10, 2016 1:55 p.m.

DarkLaw says... #15

The problem being that it doesn't gain you life or draw you cards equal to the total lost/discarded, but just the same. Hence, meh.

August 10, 2016 1:58 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #16

VampireArmy Can we get this featured?

August 10, 2016 2:02 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #17

Check out the packaging.

enter image description here

enter image description here

enter image description here

Wonder if the goblin on the second package is Daretti or Grenzo. Or maybe neither.

They're also selling a "blister pack" that has 3 packs so you can immediately get into a draft with them. Unsure of MSRP at this time.

August 10, 2016 2:18 p.m.

Phaetion says... #18

That goblin screams Daretti, Scrap Savant. Beard? Check. Belt-thingy on his stomach? Check. It's him alright.

August 10, 2016 2:25 p.m.

iBleedPunk says... #19

How much does everyone think Kaya will go for roughly? Does anyone think she will be a "Dack Fayden" in disguise and will stay above $20 for awhile?

I only ask because regardless of whether or not I like her I will need to pick one up for my Planeswalker binder.

August 10, 2016 2:29 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #20

Unlike Dack I don't think she has a place in Legacy or Vintage, so she'll probably be a Commander-only card. But I think the price will be higher than a regular "junk" walker because she has an interesting design and the set won't be opened nearly as much as regular sets.

August 10, 2016 2:32 p.m.

AwezomePozzum says... #21

Have Marchesa and/or thatcaptainoftheguardladyidon'tremember been spoiled yet?

August 10, 2016 2:41 p.m.

AwezomePozzum says... #22

Ooooooo artwork!

Maybe a card? Idk.

enter image description here

August 10, 2016 2:49 p.m.

Coinman1863 says... #23

Calling ChiefBell

August 10, 2016 3:12 p.m.

griz024 says... #24

Oh wow! That planeswalker is going right into my Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim EDH.

Maybe a reason to build Triad of Fates finally? Not me. Someone else. i already have 3 orzhov edh decks (running out of orzhov signets :p)

August 10, 2016 4:23 p.m.

Monsmtg says... #25

GoldGhost012 blister packs sound nice for buying un mappable loose packs.

August 10, 2016 4:31 p.m.

AwezomePozzum says... #26

Monsmtg: I don't believe Conspiracy: Take the Crown will be mappable. Wizards just made that mistake and if they make it again i'm going to be VERY watchful of my fellow players when recieving packs.

August 10, 2016 5:10 p.m.

kyuuri117 says... #27

Everyone and their mom is hyping up this walker on Reddit, and I just don't understand why. This is the assessment I left there, and I assume it's going to get down-voted to hell and back because "OMG IT'S A NEW WALKER HOW CAN YOU SAY IT'S BAD?!???!"

Harsh yet accurate assessment of this new walker:

"Lets assume that you are going to get one activation on this card, as to assume you're getting a second activation is assuming too much about the boardstate, your opponents hands and decks, and is just generally being greedy. ESPECIALLY as Conspiracy is meant to be played in a 4 player pod.

You have 3 options. You can use her 0. You now have a few more options. You can temporarily remove a blocker at the cost of 2 life. Not inherently good as it's coming back for free, but also not inherently bad as it allows you to get some damage in. However, if your opponents creature has an ETB effect, well, it devalues pretty damn quickly. You can flicker one of your OWN creatures for 2 life. This is actually much worse. Not only does it not come back until your next upkeep (an entire turn cycle is forever in a 4 player pod), and is therefore unable to defend your walker, but it comes back with summoning sickness. Regardless of it's ETB, that isn't great. Lastly, you can use her 0 to flicker herself immediately. Obviously, you aren't going to do this.

You can also -1. In conspiracy, this is going to make 3 opponents lose 2 life, and you are going to gain 2. You are also going to gain the annoyance of the table. A planeswalker is hard enough to defend in a 1v1 match, but in a 4 player pod? They rarely live. So, 4 mana to drain and gain the table for 2. Does that seem good? No it does not.

How about her -1 in a 1v1 format? Well, ignoring that she can only see play in 1v1 EDH, Legacy, and Vintage as far as competitive constructed magic goes (none of which are going to want to run this), it's just not that great of an ability. Lets assume she lives TWO turns. That's drain for 4, gain for 4 over two turns. You know what's comparable? Warleader's Helix, a far superior card, even in it's mediocrity. Helix can actually hit creatures, and it happens all at once. You might not ever get that second activation with this walker.

Finally, her -2. The discard aspect of that is absolutely irrelivant. Your opponents are going to discard lands if they have playable action in their hands, or they'r going to discard spells that cost way too much to cast currently, or are 1-2 drops when they have 5+ land. Either way, you aren't getting rid of something important. As far as the card draw goes, you're drawing 1 card for 4 mana... and 4 mana split over 2 colors. Is it worth spending 4 mana to draw 1 card? Absolutely not.

Is the effect worth it in 1v1? Not really. It's not bad, but it's not repeatable like LotV. You get 2 attempts, and then you need to reset your walker. And resetting your walker takes an activation for the turn.

So yea, all in all, she's hot garbage. She doesn't protect herself well, her card advantage is bad, and she's highly antagonistic to the table in a multiplayer pod without brining enough to back herself up. No planeswalker card that relies on OTHER cards to protect itself has ever been successful, and the trend isn't going to be broken with this one."

-- Me.

August 10, 2016 6:21 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #28

I really like this card, except for the fact that her second and third abilities do not increase in beneficial effect if her controller has more opponents; that is a major flaw, which means that the ability actually gets worse the more opponents that one has, whereas, if the amount of life gained or cards drawn increased, the ability would be better with more opponents. Why has WotC been stopping mass life drain effects from increasing in effect with more opponents? That makes no sense.

August 10, 2016 6:52 p.m.

DarkLaw says... #29

I wonder if Kaya would be any good at mana symbol 1mana symbol wmana symbol b. No Dack Fayden or LOTV, that's for sure, but better.

August 10, 2016 7:11 p.m.

AwezomePozzum says... #30

DarkLaw That would make her a tiny bit better. However, if we also changed it to be "you gain life equal to the life lost this way", similar to Extort, it would bring it out of "Unplayable" into "Filler".

August 10, 2016 8:58 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #31

Sam Stoddard mentioned that R&D is currently moving away from "drain 2 to each opponent, gain total drained" because people had been complaining about how powerful some of those effects were, especially in Multiplayer formats.

August 10, 2016 9:11 p.m.

AwezomePozzum says... #32

GoldGhost012: AAAAAGH DEVS WHY. Nice for you to give me a straight and fast answer tho. Thanks.

August 10, 2016 9:18 p.m.

kengiczar says... #33

I am disappointed with Kaya. I was hoping she'd be the next Dak not only in terms of being the flagship Walker but also in terms of being Legacy/Vintage playable.

August 10, 2016 9:22 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #34

Kaya is amazingly good. She's not 1v1 playable in any format, but that's fine. The card advantage she accrues in multiplayer, casual formats is absolutely A++ and in these situations she's just awesome. I don't think she's a card for a highly competitive format, but I do think she'll end up being one of those cards people complain about in casual commander a lot because their power level isn't high enough for legacy-lite EDH play but arguably too high for your standard durdly play.

August 11, 2016 2:15 a.m. Edited.

DarkLaw says... #35

I don't know. For her removal aspect, I'd rather run (the real-world cheaper) Swords. Trying to get spicy with blinking? Conjurer's Closet gives you back the creature immediately, can be run in any deck, and doesn't lose you life. Trying to do anything else? A two life point swing in a format with 4 players at 40 life hardly scratches the surface, and letting people discard lands while netting you one card is passable. Counting on her living past one turn? In multiplayer, not happening.

August 11, 2016 4:01 a.m.

ChiefBell says... #36

Totally disagree with poor survival prospects. Tap out t4 for her then blink so shes safe. Get her back t5 and untap. Wipe the board, play ghostly prison, play crawlspace, whatever, then -2 her etc. I seem to remember there being a particularly irritating esper commander known for prison lockdowns that would well enjoy simultaneous card draw with opposing discard.

Almost all planeswalkers are balanced so that 1 activation is bad value but 2 activations is exceedingly strong. 4 mana to draw a card and force 3 discards is obviously passable but not amazing. Forcing 6 discards and drawing 2 is just busted at that mana cost. Thats an 8 gross card swing. And you mentioned a 2 life swing. Its not. It's -2 to them and +2 to you which is a 4 life swing on a 1v1 basis but an 8 life swing in 4 player free for all. Card and life advantage in multiplayer is about ALL the players, not just 1 opponent. Affecting all of them at the same time is just exceedingly powerful.

An issue of survivability is an issue of deck building. There are no shortage of possibilities in black/white to enable her. I used to run in the region of 6 sweepers in my Abzan deck. Add blue and you get even more. Walker lockdown is already a thing.

August 11, 2016 7:36 a.m.

smackjack says... #37

I want MORE!

August 11, 2016 9:47 a.m.

DarkLaw says... #38

Having to compete with 3x the removal is very tough. Many of the more popular commander decks have persistent, even broken, forms of card advantage, inevitably leading to removal. A couple don't even care about creatures or attacking you. They'll have no problem shutting you down if Kaya annoys them.

In commander, you typically need PWs with a good immediate impact. Sorin Markov, Karn, Ugin, Tezzeret, Tamiyo, and Liliana are all some good examples of PWs that see play. Sorin devastates an opponent's life total immediately, Ugin wipes the field, Tezzeret pulls incredible artifact support, Liliana tutors a card, Tamiyo can draw you a lot, Karn is just good. There are also planeswalkers which are useful because they reward you immensely for protecting them. All of the above are good examples of this. Unlike Kaya, though, they generate their value much quicker. If I have to choose between dropping a Jace, Architect of Thought or Kaya, I'd definitely go for Jace, because he rewards you better over a similar time period. Kaya is just meh in comparison to all of these.

August 11, 2016 10:27 a.m.

griz024 says... #39

Her First ability lets you abuse enter the battlefield effects. She's made for Commander. She is the orzhov vesner.

Well I will agree it's not the greatest Planeswalker ever. I do believe it will fit in several decks. good utility card

August 11, 2016 11:23 a.m.

ChiefBell says... #40

you can name 1001 cards with immediate impact that are played in commander and i can name 1001 cards with no immediate impact that are played in commander. arguments by induction don't work well.

Again, an issue with planeswalker survivability is a deck building issue first and foremost. There are many planeswalkers that see huge play that dont protect themselves - you mentioned one of them yourself.

She's slow but supremely powerful through time. This might not make her use as widespread as Ugin or something but thats ultimately irrelevant because that doesnt make her bad.

August 11, 2016 11:46 a.m.

DarkLaw says... #41

Again, an issue with planeswalker survivability is a deck building issue first and foremost.

I disagree. The only way that your planeswalker won't die if the whole group wants it is if you are in a strong, winning position. Or at least, that holds true almost all the time- I don't want anyone trying to second guess me with ridiculous board positions. Nothing practical you put in your deck drastically increases your chances of having your planeswalker live because it's so easy for 3 other people to have an answer and more for the most scary things you try to do, and what protects it. Hence, it's impractical assuming that your planeswalker lives for very long unless it happens to be very tough like Ugin.

Anyway, there are other great choices to drain life or draw cards in W/B, especially W/U/B. Phyrexian Arena or Blind Obedience are such cards and harder to interact with.

August 11, 2016 12:54 p.m.

Atony1400 that's a huge strength, as far as I'm concerned. I know people who want a W/B 'Walker that isn't a Sorin. Now we have one.

August 11, 2016 12:57 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #43

Yeah, that's true. Sorta like Dack and Ral Zarek, but Dack came first.

August 11, 2016 12:59 p.m.

DarkLaw

"Harder to interact with"? I can count on one hand the number of cards that destroy Planeswalkers: Hero's Downfall, Dreadbore, and Ruinous Path. Anything that destroys/exiles a nonland permanent or permanent would suffice as well, but those are mostly in green. Now compare that to the number of cards that destroy/exile enchantments.

August 11, 2016 1:07 p.m.

kengiczar says... #45

@ canterlotguardian - People generally have way more creatures than they do cards the remove enchantments. So yeah Enchantments are generally harder to interact with.

August 11, 2016 1:12 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #46

i think theres massive overestimation here of how easy it is to kill a resolved walker. particularly one in a deck designed to keep it alive.

August 11, 2016 1:24 p.m.

kengiczar you want to talk about creatures? Reclamation Sage, Felidar Cub, Harmonic Sliver on a more limited scale. Enchantment removal is a dime a fucking dozen in Magic. And as ChiefBell mentioned, if you have a 'Walker you want to stick around, you're going to have ways to protect it. And with 'Walker removal being way more limited than enchant removal, that just makes the 'Walker's controller's job that much easier.

August 11, 2016 1:33 p.m.

kengiczar says... #48

That's all well and good but the original discussion was whether or not the walker can protect itself.

What's better, a walker that can protect itself in a deck that is built to protect it or a walker that cannot protect itself in a deck that is built to protect it?

And again, are there more cards that can damage/remove P-Walkers or more cards that can remove Enchantments in total in the average deck list?

August 11, 2016 1:38 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #49

flickering herself against unfavourable board states is a huge form of protection.....

August 11, 2016 1:40 p.m.

She won't see play in legacy. At all. There is no need to discuss on the plethora of reasons why. I think in commander/EDH though she is good. Although not having a plus ability would have help her out tremendously, I think flickering herself in combination to her other abilities set her up for some neat stuff. Being able she can drain everyone for 8 life, then flicker herself to reset her counters and do it all over again if the board is in her favor. Also with the discard/ draw card to a lesser degree.

She is slightly dependent on the board state as she can't change it to her favor permanently so you can't just jam her on a bad board. She reminds me of Narset Transcendent in how she will probably play out.

August 11, 2016 1:40 p.m.

This discussion has been closed