Commander Collection Black is hot garbage
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 24, 2021, 3:57 p.m. by Azdranax
With the announced spoilers for CCB, I’m struggling to have a positive view of this series now, comparing black to the previous green collection. Black is so underpowered compared to green it leaves me wondering what we can possibly expect from the future color options remaining. Maybe someone just needs to provide a positive point of view on the list for me to find a silver lining, but seeing my favorite color short changed is beyond disappointing.
DarkMagician says... #4
It isn't bad but the lack of any sort of tutor is disappointing. They should have put in Entomb at least to go with the Reanimate.
August 24, 2021 4:24 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #5
Actually, on second thought, it is pretty bad over all.
August 24, 2021 4:26 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #6
I wouldn't say it's under powered. Just it doesn't have the same monetary value and depending on the price point this product could be amazing. Though I wouldn't pay more than 25-30 for non-foil. I felt like a dummy after pre ordering the green 1 for 100; they're everywhere for about 60 now.
It should be noted that the old foil version of Phyrexian Arena hovers around $300 and having a cheaper alternative to expensive foils, for people who like pringles is definitely a decent selling point assuming your store is WPN+
(Lowest price for non-foil playable versions)
Toxic Deluge- 21.50 Lilana - 20 Gisa - 6 Ophiomancer - 20 Phyrexian arena - 15 Reanimate- 9 Sol ring - 2 Commander tower - sub 1 dollar
August 24, 2021 4:31 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #7
Actually, on second thought, it is pretty bad over all.
August 24, 2021 4:33 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #8
TBH I'm just glad Toxic caught a reprint. Ophiomancer needed one too--and Arena remains one of the most played black cards.
August 24, 2021 4:41 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #10
Huh, I mean I like it. If the price is not too high I was looking at picking up some of those anyways. Arena is arguably not as powerful as it is popular but still spendy. Toxic is always great. Can never have too many reanimates. Ophiomancer is cool. Really a favorite of mine. Gisa can be awesome, use to be one of the most played in black. Liliana is nice, though her ultimate is the only part I really like and can hardly ever get... I never did look at the green pack though. So I'm just seeing this in a bubble. None of these are outright unplayable or bad.
August 24, 2021 5:25 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #11
Ghisa definitely should be switched out with Demonic Tutor.
August 24, 2021 5:55 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #12
I think if anything should be switched out it should be the command tower and sol ring.... Those are already everywhere. Yea they are more spendy than they ought to be but... I think this should be all black cards.
August 24, 2021 6:05 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #13
The Ring and Tower are going to be part of each collection; the idea is that each color should get a fancy, thematic version of those hyperstaples. I'm not against it--most fancy Sol Rings are expensive, so more, cheaper versions only serve to make blinging more accessible.
August 24, 2021 6:10 p.m.
I am not super fond of this collection, but think a lot of that disappointment may be from Wizards perpetuating the myth that Phyrexian Arena should be an EDH staple (Necropotence should have taken that slot).
I think the art is a bit of a miss as well, with the original printings generally being superior to the new versions.
August 24, 2021 6:12 p.m.
I mostly agree Caerwyn, although I do like the new Ghoulcaller Gisa artwork.
August 24, 2021 6:15 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #16
I'll take Toxic with no dying people in the art over OG any day
50% jokes aside, Phyrexian Arena is legit a bad card. It may have been in the past worthy of staple status, but the format is too fast now--1 card a turn (and taking a pain!) is not nearly good enough.
August 24, 2021 6:41 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
For any users who have not yet seen the set, here is a link to the full information from the set, and the cards contained within are as follows:
-Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip
I expected that those last two cards would be in this set, and they certainly have nice artwork, but this set, overall, feels far less powerful than did the green set, which severely disappoints me, as black is one of my two favorite colors in this game (the other being white).
All three creatures should not have been in this set; I, myself would have chosen Bloodgift Demon, Rune-Scarred Demon, and a tutor, such as Imperial Seal.
Caerwyn, in no way am I doubting the power of Necropotence, but its two drawbacks can actually hurt a player in many situations, so I prefer Greed in the majority of situations, although I am still hoping for a reprint of Book of Rass at some point in the future.
After the excellence of the green set, I had high hopes for all future installments in this series, so the actual list of cards in this set is very disappointing. Hopefully, the remaining three colors shall all have excellent sets.
August 24, 2021 9:30 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #18
A reprint of Graveborn Muse also would have been very nice, since that card has not been reprinted in many years.
August 24, 2021 9:34 p.m.
If there was a single card that would have flipped the quality of this it would have been Imperial Seal. As for commanders, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed or Tinybones, Trinket Thief would have been nice value picks. Heck why not throw in a Dark Confidant or a Grave Pact?
August 26, 2021 5:26 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #20
This almost feels more like a Signature Spellbook...
August 27, 2021 12:24 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #21
I think they could have picked better Staples to run, but the ones they did pick are fine as long as the price tag isn't ridiculous. My opinion will vary based on price. If it's a $100 drop, it's pretty trash for what they reprinted. But if it's like a $60 package? That's not bad at all.
Personally, I love the artwork. Especially Liliana's reverse. And that Sol Ring is to die for!
Okay I'll go stand in the corner again.
August 27, 2021 8:40 p.m.
You’re not wrong, but I’m still just hung up on the fact that green had worldly tutor AND sylvan library. Black had nothing truly comparable in terms of play value in this collection. While not bad in the real sense, it’s bad as a comparable product imho. Vampiric, demonic or imperial tutor - one of them should have been on the list, and arena over necropotence is just sad.
August 27, 2021 10:28 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #23
Azdranax Vampiric Tutor was reprinted pretty recently with CMR, Imperial Seal is a 700 dollar card (not likely to be reprinted in a 60 dollar set); Demonic I could have seen, but that was reprinted in STA so...
Necro needed to be on this list. That's really my only complaint.
August 27, 2021 11:29 p.m.
Reanimate and toxic deluge were both recently reprinted as well, and seal is only $700 because WotC chooses not to reprint it in an accessible set. For a company that supposedly doesn’t acknowledge the secondary market, they certainly like holding certain low print run cards hostage.
August 28, 2021 12:48 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #25
Azdranax WotC can't acknowledge the secondary market without opening themselves to gambling allegations. As long as they "don't know" that cards they're selling have real-world value, then they can continue to sell them without that pressure of law. Doesn't mean I like it, but they have reasons.
August 28, 2021 1:55 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #26
Gents, most of these cards are either very well-played or worth 20-30$, right? I'm seeing the same set of cards y'all are.
August 28, 2021 3:36 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #27
I dunno, I'm pretty happy with it. I could use a copy of all of the cards in the collection, and I like the new art. I'm not upset at all.
August 29, 2021 11:58 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #28
golgarigirl, none of the cards in this set are terrible on their own, but the overall set, at least in my mind, is not nearly as good as was the previous set, which is why I am disappointed with it.
The general presumption is that Commander Collection will contain reprints of cards that are staples of the EDH format, and, while five of the cards in this set definitely qualify for that status, the remaining three (specifically, the three creatures) do not, in my mind, compared with the previous collection, in which six of the cards were unquestionably staples, and the remaining two (Omnath and Freyalise) were still very good in their own right.
August 29, 2021 4:22 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #29
It has no tutor (an inarguable oversight really) and lacks a distinct 'value card', but I don't think it failed at providing cards that are definite format roleplayers. And I don't think that's 100% the point of the collection...just the point on the box, like everything Wizards does.
Gisa fills the same role Omnath did last time (Legend from the plane we recently visited at the collection's release), and I think Ophiomancer especially would see a lot more play if it wasn't printed only once in a commander deck 8 years ago.
Phyrexian Arena fills the 'card advantage' slot, and is is too much money for a card that is still very played in the format...in fact, it's the most played card in this whole set (and is #3 card in black as a whole)...and increasing access to it is exactly what we need (especially if you all want people to learn that it's not that good :P).
Liliana fills the Freyalise/planeswalker slot. Don't know why they chose this incarnation in particular, but I'd love to point out that Ob Nixilis, Reignited is more popular if you're hellbent for staples only (and you really wanted to see some knickers get twisted)!
August 29, 2021 8:01 p.m. Edited.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #30
ZendikariWol - I am seeing the same cards as you. This collection is straight fire.
Kind of surprised at all the complaints I am seeing here. Every single one of these cards sees heavy commander play and fit perfectly flavor wise. If this was released even 1-2 years ago the monetary value would've been crazy. People forget that Gisa was like $25 before Jumpstart and it took multiple reprints to get Reanimate to bottom out around $10. The rest are cards that hang perpetually between $10-$25 so I don't see the problem with the value here. Also, as of this post, the total monetary value between to the two Collections is about $5. The value is just spread out over the entire set instead of 2 cards like with the green Collection, which I generally prefer.
Not having a tutor is an oversight, but honestly, this Collection ranks higher than the green one for me.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
Link, please? No clue what's in this thing ;P
August 24, 2021 4:06 p.m.