RG vs RUG
Pioneer Deck Help forum
Posted on March 29, 2020, 1:57 p.m. by capriom85
I want to build a midrange beatdown deck for pioneer. I played Temur monsters back in RTR/KTR standard with much success. Given the current state of pioneer, I am wondering is splashing blue for Savage Knuckleblade and Prime Speaker Zegana would be worth it.
So far I am thinking Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic to get the party started. Vivien, Champion of the Wilds and Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner for some card advantage. Top of my curve is going to look like Glorybringer. What do I do in between? Would the blue be worth it, or should I just stay where I am and start looking at Gruul Spellbreaker and Questing Beast instead?
Magnanimous says... #3
Sorry my above comment was long. TL;DR: If I had this choice my RG deck would look like RG burn/zoo and bore me while my RUG deck would likely be Tier 2+ but I could actually use Savage Knuckleblade.
March 30, 2020 9:36 a.m.
If you were to splash blue at all, it should be for Negate/Stubborn Denial. Savage Knuckleblade just isn't worth it, in my opinion. You have much better three drops in RG as it is, and Prime Speaker isn't where you want to be for double blue.
March 30, 2020 3:50 p.m.
Magnanimous says... #5
I do think Savage Knuckleblade is good and could be great in a deck like this. In situations where both you and your opponent have very few cards in hand, it can be a great mana sink that can take games. I do agree that Prime Speaker Zegana is bad (6 mana cards should help you go from a losing to a winning position, this is a win-more card) and think that the old Kiora, the Crashing Wave would be better than the new one. On that note, an interesting direction would be a Kiora fog deck that slams bombs in the late-game.
March 30, 2020 4 p.m.
triproberts12 says... #6
You're basically asking the same question that Standard BGx Explore players were asking. Basically, the conclusion that they came to is that a third color IS worth splashing, but only for counterspells, and probably only out of the sideboard. If you don't have a pressing need for Negate or Stubborn Denial to shut down decks that go just under you, then stick with 2-color.
March 30, 2020 6:08 p.m.
Magnanimous, Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner is the idea for card draw and also the ramping ability. Imagine T1 mana dork, T2 Kiora uncapping land to hold up Stubborn Denial or Shock mana. T3 sees a 4-5 drop creature. I am looking at Glorybringer or Stormbreath Dragon here, drawing me a card, getting 4 damage in, and possibly killing off a creature.
x12721, sure PSZ might not be so good. Good call.
triproberts12, true. I think the Stubby D addition may be worth it.
March 31, 2020 7:04 p.m.
Magnanimous says... #8
Yeah, that's why I don't think new Kiora is good. T1 Mystic followed by T2 3-mana Mystic doesn't seem great. Sylvan Caryatid would provide fixing and give the same hard to hit body at a cheaper price. I don't value the card draw very much because unless you plan on slamming 4 drop after 4 drop in a close match where you really need that card draw, it doesn't help you to win the game. The type of option I'd go for is something like Elvish Reclaimer (a pet card of mine, so I definitely over value it). Low initial cost and use mid game as it grows and late game with utility lands. Also fits with the theme of big creatures.
March 31, 2020 8:56 p.m.
capriom85 let me know when you build the deck, I'd be happy to give more feedback!
Magnanimous says... #2
I've thought about this subject before when making decks, but have fallen slightly out of touch with the current Pioneer meta. I'd say that in general RG is best for a fast play it and swing deck and if you do want tempo and counterplay you should add blue, although that may change. Blue also might be better if you feel like T1 dork is being met by removal too often and you'd rather have a counter, Opt, or something else instead. If I were in this position, I would focus on optimizing a Savage Knuckleblade deck instead of looking for the best possible midrange deck in those colors because I know I'll probably end up disappointed or in a completely different segment of the color pie (for some reason all my decks end up in GB).
With that said, I think you can make two pretty good RUG decks in that general style. I'll call the first Value Town. Use the new Titans and synergies with new cards to beat down, get lands into play, whatever (don't know the deck well just think it's good). I'd prefer a deck that works like a Delver deck, stopping yourself from just dying T5 and waiting for the moment to slam your higher value creatures. Use just enough cards like AEtherize, Stubborn Denial, Brazen Borrower, and Shock to keep you alive. Add either Opt and others as glue or Elvish Mystic and others as acceleration. Then fill the other slots with haymakers like Glorybringer, Goblin Rabblemaster, and Questing Beast. For the mana, I'd want to just shuffle up a pile of on color fast lands and make sure the R/G/U split is roughly even but I don't think that's optimal.
March 30, 2020 9:32 a.m.