Viability of Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines in Modern
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 8, 2023, 4:44 a.m. by wallisface
Interested to hear peoples thoughts on the viability of Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines in Modern.
On the plus side:
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it’s almost impossible to kill, being 5 mana gets around Fatal Push and most Prismatic Ending decks. She’s immune to Leyline Binding, Solitude and Fury. And her toughness evades both Lightning Bolt and Unholy Heat… there is very little in the format that can touch her.
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Her abilities are both offensively powerful and potentially hugely disruptive to the opponents plans. I imagine if she can stay on the field for a few turns in grindier matchups, then the value gained will have almost certainly secured a win.
On the negatives:
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She does nothing on entry, and you need to play other cards to get value from her.
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5 mana is a LOT in modern, and not normally a cost you’d want to be striving towards paying (most mana curves end at 3-4 mana).
So, what are peoples thoughts? Could the card be modern viable, or are there just too many hoops to jump through for this to be useful?
I don’t think she is overly viable - your five mana cards should really advance victory in an immediate, tangible way. Norn does not do that. She might disrupt an opponent’s plans the turn she drops, but disrupting a certain opponent is the goal, that’s a sideboard piece not maindeck - and, if you really need a sideboard card to stop ETBs, Torpor Orb is the superior sideboard tech.
Defensively, she’s bad sideboard tech - offensively I think she’s just too slow. I’m sure someone can build a deck with some powerful “whenever a creature ETBs” effect that make playing her provide some instant value - I just don’t see that deck as being ultra competitive.
February 8, 2023 9:19 a.m.
My first thought was some sort of blink value deck, like the current Death and Taxes with Skyclave Apparition and Solitude, but the five mana does make it hard to work around. I think it's going to be potentially powerful in Limited, a strong build-around in Standard, Commander, and casual Modern, and maybe top a fringe-competitive Pioneer control/value deck (I'm not up to date on Pioneer).
As far as removal, Bx still has stuff like Terminate and Drown in the Loch, there's the usual array of Counterspell and friends, and Supreme Verdict and other board wipes wander in once in a while. If a 5-mana 7-toughness creature with no way to immediately protect itself becomes dominant, there will be answers.
February 8, 2023 11:24 a.m.
She seems like another missed opportunity if you ask me. The card could have been viable if they decreased the cmc and adjusted/nerfed the impact she would have, but it seems they went in the opposite direction. Powerful, but by the time it can actually be fielded it’s of little value.
I play mostly non-competitive Modern and I’m still struggling to think of creative, effective ways to get her in play and make the most of what she offers. In a competitive setting I wouldn’t know where to begin.
February 8, 2023 11:51 a.m.
If you have one in your Creativity deck and cast it for X=2 and hit Elesh Norn and an Archon of Cruelty it's like you hit two Archons.
February 8, 2023 12:45 p.m.
im gonna go with she is a "win more" kinda card...Assuming she goes into a Soulherder blink/flicker deck; an additional Panharmonicon effect that doubles as a one sided Torpor Orb hate piece for the mirror match.
Next thought is maybe a piece in a Primeval Titan kinda deck? maybe thats a better fit?
February 8, 2023 1:01 p.m.
wallisface says... #8
Thanks for the feedback everyone, much appreciated. They all kind-of echo the background thoughts I was having, so good to solidify those problems as real.
I think i’m going to try her as a 1-of in my sideboard for Esper Taxes. I think she might have some merit in the grind-fests that can sometimes eventuate in some matchups - but will have to play to see.
shadow63 says... #2
I'm not super familiar with the format but it's a set up piece that comes down turn 5. But most decks win by turn 5 so it doesn't seem worth it. Ans there's better things to cheat out
February 8, 2023 8:54 a.m.