Mono blue tempo wincing
Modern forum
Posted on Oct. 11, 2019, 2:18 a.m. by Zetalpa
Hello! I have a mono blue tempo deck that is kind-of modern. But I don't really have any wincons in it, which is a problem. So if anyone would have an idea of wincons in a mono blue tempo deck, I would be very grateful!
RedPowerRanger9001 says... #3
ToolmasterOfBrainerd: what are you talking about? EVERY deck plays win conditions. its how they...win.
October 11, 2019 2:30 a.m.
RedPowerRanger9001 says... #4
can you post a link to your deck? Brineborn Cutthroat is a good way to end a game.
October 11, 2019 2:30 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #5
What? No. Most casual decks and every control deck (except in a few unfortunate standard formats) have win conditions. No other deck has cards which they consider 'win conditions'.
If you're playing a burn deck you don't play 'win conditions' because every card in your deck is either a land or it deals damage to the opponent. Talking about win conditions doesn't make sense because every nonland card in the deck is technically a win condition.
Even in a midrange deck, Tarmogoyf isn't a wincon. It might be an efficient threat which is oftentimes used to kill a player when the time comes, in many matchups its primary use is to win in creature combat. It is, by no means, a win con.
A win con is typically something mana-intensive which is played after you have established control of the game in order to end the game. You can personally define the term however the want, but it will be useless for you because this is the use most often intended within the magic community.
October 11, 2019 2:45 a.m.
Well here is the decklist:enter link description here It probably looks terrible, but I am trying to improve it!
October 11, 2019 4:26 a.m.
Uchiha9001X says... #9
jaymc1130: not well said at all.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd: every deck has win conditions. it is the condition by which the deck wins. burn decks absolutely play "win conditions". by the literal definition of the two words, "win conditions" are certainly NOT limited to "mana intensive" cards. do you even have a verifiable definition for "mana intensive"? you dont get to decide what is the "most intended" by the magic community. in fact in my own experiences, you're grossly wrong about what is "most intended". before you, i have literally never heard of anyone limiting the use of the term "win condition" to only control decks. i've seen decks win on turn 2 with Griselbrand . are they control decks? obviously not. but Griselbrand is their win condition. Tarmogoyf is a win condition. a win condition is literally any card or combo that a player plans to win the game with.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Win_Conditions
as you can see in the link, control decks are never specified.
October 11, 2019 5:29 a.m.
@ Uchiha9001X Mate, it's pretty simple. "Win Condition", as a term used in the general MTG community for upwards of 2 decades at this point, refers to a specific set of cards, actions, or combos that defines the parameters by which a deck wins it's games as these are the only ways in which it will win. "Win Conditions" is never used to refer to damage spells or creature threats or any of the more mundane methods of generating a win in match. These manners of win are the standard and no specific term needs to be used to explain that creatures win games when they attack in combat. That'd just be silly. They are simply called "Threats".
"Win Condition" is a term that specifically relates to cards that win via narrow parameters. Burn doesn't run "Win Conditions" because then we'd be calling literally every card in the deck a "Win Condition". It doesn't matter that this is, in fact, the case, that any card in the deck can generate a win. All that matters is that these methods of generating a win are wide ranging and the common method of generating a win via reducing an opponent's life total to 0 in a very mundane and standard fashion.
Toolmaster referred to control and combo decks as these are typically the decks that run more narrow faceted ways to win games with most of the cards in those types of decks being devoted to enabling the combo or controlling the game to allow the limited number of winning components to close out a game.
October 11, 2019 5:43 a.m. Edited.
Uchiha9001X says... #11
jaymc1130: dude, your 2nd sentence directly contradicts your 3rd. "a specific set of cards, actions, or combos that defines the parameters by which a deck wins it's games as these are the only ways in which it will win." would ABSOLUTELY include burn spells and creatures. it absolutely DOES matter that those cards can WIN the game, because that is how WIN condition is defined. its even how YOU defined it. how is "casting a burn spell" or "attacking with a creature" anything other than an "action that defines the paramaters by which a deck wins"? and who are you to decide what is mundane? how is being mundane relevant? its pretty simple mate. if it can win the game, its a win condition.
October 11, 2019 5:50 a.m.
Uchiha9001X says... #12
"burn doesn't run win conditions cuz then we'd be calling every card in the deck a win condition".
yeah. exactly. they're all win conditions. been playing magic for 14 years and met hundreds of players who all agree that "casting a bunch of burn spells" qualifies as a win condition. it creates a condition in which the player wins.
October 11, 2019 5:57 a.m.
Not a single player will ever call Lightning Bolt a "Win Condition" mate. Period. They will call it a "Burn" spell. Yes, chaining multiple burn spells together can be a win condition, but the individual spells themselves are not "Win Conditions". This is common sense. Having threats in a deck can result in a win, but you don't label every creature a "Win Condition". It's simply assumed that if you can get the last hit or burn the last 2 or 3 life from an opponent that you will win a game. There is no such assumption for an ulting Planeswalker, or a Birthing Pod, or a Laboratory Maniac. These are the types of things that are "Win Conditions" as the way in which they can win is very narrow in scope and it is not the assumed method of winning via standard damage dealt. There's really nothing else to be said on this topic.
October 11, 2019 6:14 a.m.
How about we get back to the deck itself, rather than discuss what is or is not a win condition. That can be a topic for a whole thread, but is not particularly helpful for the OP on this one. If anyone does, feel free to tag me - I have my own thoughts I'd add, but I'm not going to do that here.
I'm going to give the deck a look right now and will post my feedback on the deck's page.
October 11, 2019 9:10 a.m.
dingusdingo says... #15
I have a pet theory that Sarkhan420X shitposts under new accounts that contain an X at the end, like Liliana69X and this new one Uchiha9001X. Also lol @ RedPowerRanger9001 and Uchiha9001X both joined tappedout 24 hours ago with a 9001 in their name, and both decided to jump right into aggressive postings in the modern forum before any decklists, neat coincidence.
I think its extremely obvious what Toolmaster was getting at, and its unfortunate that we are caught up on definitions instead of reading the entire message for comprehension. No one is saying Lightning Bolt doesn't win games, but when your deck is 20 mountains and 40 bolt variants, calling all of them a wincon isn't really giving you any new information.
As far as cards for your deck, I think Curator of Mysteries is criminally underrated, especially for budget builds. 4/4 flyer for 4 that can cycle away if you're flush with them early, and gives extra utility from running other cycle cards. An updated version of the classic Air Elemental . Works well with the cycle lands if you want to draw on the cheap while still holding up control during your opponents turn.
Pteramander is also an excellent choice. You get your flying beats earlier than with Curator but you still have the option of adapting later in the game to keep up pressure.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #2
What do you currently play?
Tempo doesn't really play wincons. Wincons are a thing in control decks. Typically tempo plays efficient creatures that eventually win the game while you use your disruption to keep your opponent from winning.
Delver of Secrets Flip is the most celebrated tempo creature.
October 11, 2019 2:21 a.m.