Im a poor modern player who needs to make a big decision.

Modern Deck Help forum

Posted on Dec. 10, 2017, 8:21 p.m. by Konglicker

So here's my situation. I'm a relatively poor college student who just doesn't have a ton of money to play magic. I made the conscious choice not to play standard and instead go straight into modern, because I know how rotation works and how in the long run, people ultimately pay more money playing standard than if they purchased a modern deck or even a cheap legacy deck and never spent another dime.

I have a single commander deck (one Ive slowly upgraded and adjusted over a period of two years) and a modern deck which is a sub-$100 budget build I got off MTGGoldfish. I do decent at FNM but not super great.

Here's my challenge. I want to build a competitive modern deck, but the build I currently run (SaffronOlive's Mono Black Vehicles) cannot be upgraded into a tier-worthy super-competitive deck, at least not that I know of. I have two options:

Option one is to take the janky budget list I have right now and innovate, discover new cards to make the deck more powerful, and push the archetype to its limit not knowing what that limit is. I might add another color to it to see what its capable of. But, I would hate to spend Tier 2 or even Tier 1 money trying to make this deck more powerful if it's just going to suck and whiff.

Option 2 is to trade in this deck, which I've played for a little bit, and start building an already-established archetype. I love aggro, which is why I built that deck in the first place, so I was thinking either Merfolk or something else black.

I try to be very careful with my money, which is why I'm seeking input. What do y'all think? Thank you for helping out a player in a tough spot.

Here's what ya do. Keep what you have and do not sell anything. What you gain in the short run you will lose in the long run.

Sit and think for a long time about what pedigree tier 1 deck you want. Once you get that figured out, make a list from least expensive to most expensive.

Spend whatever your MTG budget is on getting the cheapest to most expensive.

Stay committed and keep to that plan and you will have your desired deck a lot quicker than you realize.

Plus modern isn't going anywhere, take your time.

December 10, 2017 8:48 p.m.

To further add some advice.

Keep your decks intact. Do not sell or trade them. The number one goal is to play magic and if you are without functional decks you won't be playing magic while you are building. You wouldn't stop paying your rent and get evicted before you finished the house you were building would you?

Also, innovation is really fun. One of the most exciting parts of Magic is figuring out new combinations of cards to exploit. Go for it to see just how far you can push mono black vehicles.

If I could suggest a plan. Create Mono-Red Burn. It is cheap, it can be upgraded into several different versions. Furthermore, you can really easily and obscenely cheaply upgrade into a Legacy deck. Here is the thing about burn... it is one of the core mechanics of magic and as such there is going to be support for it from here until eternity. Tribal decks of "Classic" creature types are the same thing. Fish and Elves are the token image of Green and Blue tribes and will receive support as well especially with the return of Core Sets.

Step 1) Identify deck you want to build. Find a tier 1-2 deck that really speaks to you as a player.

Step 2) Make your list from cheapest to most expensive.

Step 3) Spend your budget on as many cards as you can. Don't spend more, stay on budget each month or however often you budget.

Step 3.5) If you cannot buy any cards that month because they are more expensive than your budget, save your cash and get them next month.

Step 4) Stay the course.

Step 5) Rage quit when WOTC bans a key piece of your deck the day after you buy the last card... True story, i spent four months building eggs and bam the next F&%ING day they banned Second Sunrise

December 10, 2017 9:04 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #4

I suggest Mono Green Infect. It can be built for less than 100$ and still get turn 2 wins.

If you want to play Black competitively you can upgrade from Mono Black Control into 8Rack into BG/x which at heart is really a mono black deck.

I have tons of experience with Mono Black & Golgari and can offer help if you'd like.

December 10, 2017 9:13 p.m.

Konglicker says... #5

StardustDragon11 Holy crap dude that sucks... You see, that's another thing I'm afraid of. If I buy into too good of a deck, I run the risk of getting banhammered, a-la Splinter Twin, Golgari Grave-Troll, etc. So the safest thing for me to do is buy into a strategy that isnt the best, but isnt the worst either...

December 10, 2017 9:15 p.m.

I really don't see anything getting banned any time soon in modern. The format is just way too wide open.

What deck are you thinking about?

December 10, 2017 9:32 p.m.

I really don't see anything getting banned any time soon in modern. The format is just way too wide open.

What deck are you thinking about?

December 10, 2017 9:34 p.m.

Konglicker says... #9

StardustDragon11: Well, APPLE01DOJ said something about mono-green infect. Not sure if that can be upgraded into a tier deck. I was also thinking Merfolk. I hear that's aggro, that it's pretty good, and that it even has a legacy verision.

December 10, 2017 9:34 p.m.

Oloro_Magic says... #10

I wouldn't say buying into the best strategy is necessarily the worst thing you can do. The cards that get banned are the ones that remove variance from the game. Splinter Twin, eggs, dredge, those decks came to represent too much of the meta. The best deck in modern doesn't mean they ban a piece, especially if there is hate for it. Take affinity, consistently it has been near or at the top of the modern meta for a very long time now, with that said there is probably less than 1% chance that Arcbound Ravager (one of the key cards to that deck) gets banned.

With this said there are a few cards I would try to stay away from to be safe.

Baral, Chief of Compliance: Arguably makes storm too fast and given Wizards relationship with the mechanic I wouldn't be shocked to see them try to cripple storm again.

Scapeshift: A very powerful combo piece, the deck can work without it but if it gets to a point where it is excessively popular it may be a bit risky.

Street Wraith: Only really applies to Death's Shadow decks but though I personally don't think Shadow will get banned I think there is a possibility this card gets banned to slow it down a bit.

Paradoxical Outcome: Doesn't really see any play in modern however I really think its just waiting to be abused prompting me to buy a few but stay away from building with it.

I would also in your case stick with the mono black agro type deck, maybe add something like Gray Merchant of Asphodel and start making pox or devotion. No point in not having a functional deck whilst collecting cards for a new one, trust me I've been there.

December 10, 2017 9:35 p.m.

JRaynor says... #11

StardustDragon11's advice is pretty on point. I traded my entire collection to play Twin, so when things went south I pretty much had to start my collection from the ground up. If you enjoy what you're playing now just hold onto it and slowly build up your other deck options. This leaves you less vulnerable to bannings, provides you with something to consistently play and besides all that, variety is the spice of life. Being able to swap back and forth between multiple decks you really enjoy is a pleasure.

December 10, 2017 9:43 p.m.

Konglicker says... #12

Say, if I've already got mono-black jank on wheels, why not try to build the most powerful Mono Black Devotion possible?

December 10, 2017 9:55 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #13

Mono Black Devotion isn't that great of a deck in modern. It can definitely win games but lacks enchantment and artifact interaction beyond discard. It's a slow deck that typically has to survive past the point most decks win games to stabilize. Also the ideal creature suite has an unapparent flaw. Bloodghast can't block, Geralf's Messenger comes into play tapped, Phyrexian Obliterator is a glorified wall, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel is a messily 2/2. It is however fun to pilot.

Another detour is that built properly you're still talking 1000$

Mono Green Infect can be upgraded to Simic Infect which I do believe is a Tier deck.

December 10, 2017 10:13 p.m.

shadow63 says... #14

Infect and burn are your two best op options

December 10, 2017 10:52 p.m.

xyr0s says... #15

Or a white deck, that can start as budget - like monowhite blink, or monowhite humans - and end as death and taxes. It upgrades pretty well, since you don't need to bring all the expensive pieces in one go, but can replace budget'y cards one by one (and the budget version isn't bad at all).

December 11, 2017 2:59 a.m.

I'd go for something that you can play both in Modern and Legacy as a first competitive deck. It's the best way to make your investment profitable, should you one day decide to explore legacy. I've bought a ton of expensive cards which I never played competitively, so you can trust me! :)

Therefore, I'd say go for one of these:

  • Burn: my personal favorite. Pretty cheap with the somewhat recent reprint of Goblin Guide. You go mono red for Legacy and you can go Boros for Modern (Naya is even better, but I've been pulling out great results with just Boros lately). However, salty nubs might get angry at you because many consider Burn an easy deck to play - there is no easy deck to play - and a 'simple' Leyline of Sanctity / playset of Kitchen Finks can ruin your whole gameplan.

  • Merfolk: it's mono blue but a real aggro deck. Once you've got the cards for Modern, you've got almost all the cards for Legacy as well.

  • Elves: this one's mono green but you can easily twitch it. I've seen many builds with GW and GB being the most competitive and popular ones. It's very cheap as well. It's a complex deck to run that can go incredibly wild incredibly fast. I find it good for both casual and competitive play (those pointy ears never bring hate).

  • Goblins: go mono red, google 8-Whack if you love turning dudes sideways all the way to victory. The Legacy version is more of a 'control' build but you can reuse a good amount of cards too. No hate here either. It's not the strongest but it's lots of fun and quite decent.

  • Death and Taxes: my personal second favortie. Here again, you can for for any color splash but the mono white version is really good to start with. This one will look like an aggro deck but it's actually more of a control one, with all of your creatures being able to mess up with your opponent's gameplan. It requires lots of time to master but feels really good to pilot. The upgrade to Legacy is quite pricey but this is a deck you could easily play your whole life if you like the idea behind it.

  • Infect: Not a big fan of uniteractive strategies. It can indeed pull T2 wins but got hit hard with the banning of Gitaxian Probe. Having to deal 10 instead of 20 is a big deal, no matter what format we're talking about :)

Hope it helped you!

December 11, 2017 3:48 a.m.

Konglicker says... #17

Those suggestions are all amazing WizardOfTheNorthernCoast!

December 11, 2017 11:47 a.m.

Xica says... #18

...all this boils down to misunderstanding.
There is no such thing as a cheap tier deck. Tier decks are sorted based on number of decks played at events. And with basic economics one can easily conclude that this means high demand for their cards.

You could have competitive decks that are cheap - but they won't be "tier".
(And you run the risk of being that guy, who plays the jank shit that will not come up at events, and just takes up the time of everyone involved)


If we want to talk about recent developments, mono blue living end lists, and hollow one decks tend to be pretty cheap.
I mean my mono red hollow one deck, costs around ~180$ on magiccardmarket.eu - and its gonna be a LOT cheaper after Chandra, Torch of Defiance rotates out of standard.


So if you want a good deck you need to get win/loss ratio against the decks you want to play aginst.
Which is not the same thing as the number of people playing the deck at high level competitive tournaments - despite what the common wisdom seems to be

December 11, 2017 3:15 p.m.

Ach! Hans, Run! It's Xica again!

December 11, 2017 3:25 p.m.

Xica says... #20

Well i know am the biggest heathen on the forum, one who dares to preach the falsehood of "win/loss ratio if more important than tier".

shame!
shame!
shame!

(I mean its clear that no deck every accomplished anything in the competitive scene beside tron, eldrazi, burn, D&T, GBX, and they never will - and even if they did, it was either by astronomical luck, or by bribing other competitors)

P.s.: And these views are the least of my sins, i even damned myself by proclaiming that Reality Shift seems to be a better idea for mono blue As Foretold Living End decks, than Dismember.
Thus anyone who listens to me will surely rot in the hell reserved for noncompetitive jankbuilders XD

December 11, 2017 5:12 p.m.

I agree that there are no such things as cheap tier decks but there are tier decks that can be built over time.

Mono Red Burn can be upgraded to Boros Burn and then finally to Naya Burn.

start low, grow slow.

December 11, 2017 5:22 p.m.

StardustDragon11 just said it. 'Start low, grow slow'. You have to help the guy by 'showing him the path' to tier 1 decks. He states in his title he has few money so of course telling him to go all in for a Jeskai Control deck is nonsense.

You're almost never helping on the topics while trying to 'discretly' advertise your own decks. That's what I truly find annoying about you. Other than that it's fine :)

December 11, 2017 5:50 p.m.

Pieguy396 says... #23

Depending on your LGS, they might even allow you to use proxies. If so, I'd proxy up a few decks and try them out, then start slowly building the one that's most fun for you.

December 11, 2017 6:32 p.m.

Xica says... #24

WizardOfTheNorthernCoast
If the second part of your comment is aimed at me then i think i didn't make myself clear enough or you misunderstand me, due to some misplaced emotions.

This guy asked for, let me quote the post:
"Here's my challenge. I want to build a competitive modern deck, but the build I currently run (SaffronOlive's Mono Black Vehicles) cannot be upgraded into a TIER-WORTHY super-competitive deck, at least not that I know of."
For naive me it seemed that he asked for decks that can be as competitive as high tier ones.
...but its possible that i didn't get it, or i am just hallucinating.

After this i just wanted to point out that there are viable decks outside T1.
And that there are even new archetypes that may worth looking into.
Mono blue living end is such.
And RG; RB hollow one is also one.
Sadly i am not familiar with those - so i have no clue what should be focused on a budget build. I am only familiar with my version, thus i used that to illustrate that decks below 2000$ Death Shadow uber control sometimes can be viable.

I am not saying that he should play my version of the deck, or that its "better" than any other version.
I just wanted to used a deck that has low budget, and is very fringe, to illustrate that sometimes fun can be had below Tier One - and since this is the deck i know the price of the top of my head, i used it as my example.

But Mr. Perfection please tell me what example of a cheap non-tier deck wouldn't offend your high sensibilities?



P.s.:I get that you hate me for daring to tinker with tierless janks shit, but at least stick to reality in your accusations.

If i would have wanted to advertise my deck, i would have at least tried to add some reasoning for "why its good" - i mean it would be a pretty shit add otherwise don't you think?
Also if my goal would be to advertise, why would i not add a link?
Why in the bloody hell would i suggest alternative deck that have nothing to do with mine, like the as foretold living end?

Throwing around baseless accusations, and personal insults is easy. (But also pretty pointless)
Thus i would suggest that we compete in attempting to decide if all non tier decks are shit (or not), via examples.br>As doing so would be more productive for the original poster, than flaming, and being a dick to each other in general.

December 11, 2017 6:32 p.m.

Konglicker says... #25

I'm going to go grab some popcorn. Y'all continue, please.

December 11, 2017 11:47 p.m.

bigschott says... #26

I recently started playing modern. I started with black white tokens. 4 Caves of Koilos4 Isolated Chapel4 Godless Shrine11 Plains4 Intangible Virtue3 Honor of the Pure4 Raise the Alarm4 Gather the Townsfolk4 Lingering Souls4 Spectral Procession2 Sram's Expertise4 Path to Exile3 Zealous Persecution2 Brave the Elements3 Smuggler's CopterSb to taste. i bought gr tron and jund after but i did well for months with the deck. Best was 5-0 worst was 2-3. Any questions just ask. Sorry for crappy formatting, haven't been on here in forever.

December 12, 2017 2:56 a.m.

TLDR ahah, sorry Konglicker I won't bother since I have much better things to do with my time :D I guess his need to defend himself through a ton of text pretty much proves that I was right, in a way.

B/W tokens, as bigschott suggested, is a good option for you too since you have an affinity for Black and an existing card pool. Just keep us updated once you have come up with a decision/decklist and we'll be able to give you additional feedback if you want ;)

December 12, 2017 7:35 a.m.

Xica says... #28

WizardOfTheNorthernCoast
If ya insist...

Best smear campaign ever:
"his need to defend himself through a ton of text pretty much proves that I was right"
Of course if i don't defend myself that also proves you were right, doesn't it?

I could also accuse you of purposefully misinforming the poor chap, by suggesting decks that are very far from his ~100$ budget, like:
Merfolk: ~660$
Naya burn: ~600$
Elves: ~620$
Mono white Death and taxes: ~480$
(your only real budget suggestion was goblins, as both the tribal and 8-whack can be built below 200$)enter image description here

December 12, 2017 7:57 a.m.

bigschott says... #29

Also, if your store does store credit, save it up. My lgs will even order cards from other stores if he can get a decent deal store to store. Save the credit for singles. Then build your collection slowly. Get an idea of what you like and move towards it. I was fortunate enough to have all my shocks and fetches so with winnings i bought every fast land i could get with store credit. That way if i wanted to build a deck i didn't have to get lands for it. Hell, i built a bw eldrazi and taxes deck from extras i had. Just had to fork up for aether vials when they were 25 each. Play a cheap deck for awhile. If you can, pick up Fatal Push for sb and that deck should be good for you. I have to use Sacred Ground in board because stupid ponza is a deck but you can use whatever you have to fit your group. Good luck.

December 12, 2017 11:53 a.m.

Konglicker says... #30

Hey Xica. To be more specific, I'm looking for a build that can start cheap but can slowly be upgraded into a tier deck, preferably something aggro.

I'm convinced that I shouldn't sell out my current pool to upgrade, but I would like to use as much of my old deck as possible.

Here is what I currently run:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-84-50-tix-mono-black-vehicles-modern

Here is one upgrade path I'm considering: Pox Copter

And here is an upgraded brew I designed that goes Rakdos: Death Race

December 12, 2017 12:06 p.m.

Xica says... #31

I would say that the rakdos list is somewhat weak Hellhole Flailer & Rakdos Cackler have strictly better versions, if you intend to use them as beaters (like Goblin Guide) - you could of course abuse them with something like Rage Forger, but in the end the deck just doesn't seem to have a clear plan, at least to me.

If you are willing to add some more recursive creatures like Gravecrawler (as black has plenty such options), you could build an aristocrats deck with 4x Viscera Seer + 2x other sacrifice outlet & 4x Blood Artist & 4x Zulaport Cutthroat
And then alter it slowly into the deck that was called "next level abzan".
In the maintime (due to the life leech) you can use spells like Imp's Mischief to protect your stuff - since without single target removal the deck is hard to deal with to say the least.
Maybe some number of Duress to combat both removal and planeswalkers.
...the options are endless.
(and there are nice mass reanimation spells, like Immortal Servitude)

However i would try to stay clear of Smallpox as it works best in WB planeswalker decks - and stuff like Liliana of the Veil is not cheap.
And you definietly should not play Pack Rat in such a build, as both compete for the same resources, cards in your hand.
The rat is best in Life from the Loam + Squee, Goblin Nabob builds - at least in my opinion, where its played alongside stuff like Zombie Infestation & Seismic Assault

December 12, 2017 3:49 p.m.

Konglicker says... #32

Hey Xica. The Link to Death Race in my last comment sent you to the wrong deck. That one is shit. Use this:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-11-17-death-race/

December 12, 2017 3:54 p.m.

Xica says... #33

If you go the aristocrat route, you can have a working deck in mono black (the card draw in black helps out a lot) - there is no pressing need to add other colors to make it competitive.

First i would try to upgrade into white/black, to get Cartel Aristocrat, Path to Exile, Lingering Souls & Doomed Traveler
After this, if you have too much money you can buy into Collected Company & Abzan Ascendancy

December 12, 2017 3:54 p.m.

Xica says... #34

Anyways if i managed to get you attention, watch some gameplay with aristocrat decks, to see if you would like the archetype.

December 12, 2017 3:56 p.m.

xyr0s says... #35

There's a small thing: you can't really trust the price-finder on tappedout. For whatever reason, it never searches for lowest value - if you want to see what I mean, go have a look at the price tag on different editions of Lord of Atlantis. Variance is rather big, and unless you do something actively, you always get the last printed version.

Other than that: Go with monowhite blink from mtggoldfish, and upgrade towards death and taxes, or towards eldrazi and taxes. I could also suggest 8-rack, but it's perhaps not the most interesting deck to play (depending on style preference, of course), but it does upgrade well enough if you want somethin that can be improved gradually.

December 12, 2017 4:18 p.m.

Konglicker says... #36

What do y'all think of buying into something that has the colorless BFZ and OGW Eldrazi in it? I think they're relevant in all formats, and they can go in all kinds of decks. Think of all the deck archetypes built around them.

December 15, 2017 1:25 a.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #37

Personally I feel Eldrazi is a parasite deck that has ruined modern. That being said it's fairly cheap and not going anywhere any time soon so go for it.

December 15, 2017 10:35 a.m.

Konglicker says... #38

Well, I do think the banning of Eye of Ugin was definitely needed... But that said. The Eldrazi would allow me to transition easily. Im having a hard time choosing between them, Merfolk and elves.

December 15, 2017 10:58 a.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #39

Of those 3 I would go with Eldrazi. It has a cheaper barrier to entry and is very newcomer friendly. There are far less lines of play and half your games will win themselves. Merfolk is a great deck but definitely requires more skill to win with. I personally don't think Elves is a very good deck. There's too much removal in modern for it to thrive and it's very board state dependent.

December 15, 2017 12:57 p.m.

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