American Control
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on May 22, 2018, 1:25 p.m. by ArchonBlue
I eventually want to upgrade my U/W Control to this deck because I think its the best control build in Modern. Running U/W/R gives answers to pretty much everything. Let me know what you think! :) American Control
ArchonBlue says... #3
Anger of the Gods comes out on turn 3, sometimes decks like Humans and Affinity win before turn 4.
May 22, 2018 2:18 p.m.
DOGxOFxWAR says... #4
Hi, I like the idea, and have wanted to see some these cards used in control. really hope this is a build you can iron out! If i have an opinion,You may have a bit to much going on in the deck, your looking to survive although its thin on focused shutdown cards. From experience i know its a pain syncing these colors up to control. So, My suggestion if I may is, Pick a concept and mesh the ability bit tighter. either control or attack,Both offers no path for a 3 turn anything.. and the boardwipe will harm you also if running snapcaster-mage . And gideon jura is no use here to you. Have no real suggestion to replace with since its sorta diluted. But I hope you brainstorm and get this working, Id love to see it flow ! GL&HF !
May 22, 2018 3:08 p.m.
1# How do humans win by turn 3?
turn 1 - land + champion of the parish (1/1)...............turn 2 - land + 2x champion of the parish 2x 1/1, 1x 3/3 -> swing for 3........turn 3 - land + 1x thalia's lieutenant, thus they can swing with 2x 3/3, and 1x 5/5, for 11. Dealing a total of 14 before turn 4. With the draw that happens once in a millenia.
2# How does anger of the gods help you?
(I mean cleaning up only the small humans won't exactly save you.)
May 22, 2018 3:38 p.m.
Seems like a pretty solid list overall.
3 logic knot is to many i think you should propably cut one.
Gideon Jura is a pretty solid win con but gideon of the trials is pretty strong too maybe you want one of each
Search for Azcanta is also pretty good and could be at least a two off in your deck
May 22, 2018 6:54 p.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #7
Xica you are miscalculating humans damage. While you are correct in that it happens very rarely, but you are completely forgetting about aether vialing in creatures, or turn 2 Mantis Riders and the exalted triggers from heirarch. Its rare, but humans can pull off a turn 3 win, they can pretty consistently win on turn 4-5. That being said, in the event of being prepared to be board wiped (humans biggest threat by far) they will almost always Kitesail Freebooter away any threats to their board. Also, if they look at your hand and see they can only deal with one threat, they can Meddling Mage the other one.
May 22, 2018 7:19 p.m.
DOGxOFxWAR says... #8
Ive Got $700 Thalia Mono Company Deck. All Human Buffer/Token gen.. Not saying it can win in X Turns, But Even terrible draw Nets me around 150 +2/+2 Tokens Per turn, and at least 2-3 +30/+30 Creatures.. So even without dealing damage in a certain amount of time, its hard to beat me with a good draw and 7 mana under 7 turns when i got over 500 Tokens on the field and 4 creatures at +500/+500.. And this is NO Lie.. Dont doubt the Humans :)
May 22, 2018 9:10 p.m.
DankStompy says... #9
pretty sure grixis or esper control beat jeskai control. ya gotta have black.
May 22, 2018 10:30 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #10
No way DankStompy, Jeskai is way more popular than Esper and Grixis in the Modern meta, and for good reason. Spells like Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix clean up the board and can be flashed back with Snapcaster Mage to close out games, and you can still run a full removal/counterspell suite with things like Path to Exile, Supreme Verdict, Logic Knot, Spell Snare, and Cryptic Command. Its a very versatile build.
May 22, 2018 10:40 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #11
I can reconfigure the deck to run Settle the Wreckage mainboard and cut a Logic Knot, but I'm not sure about the third Search for Azcanta Flip. Two has always felt like a pretty good number to me, especially with all the cantrips in here.
May 22, 2018 10:43 p.m.
DankStompy says... #12
"popular" does not equal "better". lots of things can be re-used with snapcaster mage, that quite frankly provide more control than a Lightning Bolt or Lightning Helix. things like Terminate, Fatal Push, Cast Down, Thoughtseize, or Inquisition of Kozilek. wanna know what makes it even funnier? the ONLY card you mentioned that can't be used in esper or grixis, is the Lightning Helix. every single other card you mentioned can still be used in esper or grixis colors, thus those examples destroyed your own argument.
May 22, 2018 10:45 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #13
Discard is fun but its pretty overrated in my opinion. If you get Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek in your opening hand sure, you can set yourself up. But mid or late game when your opponent already has a stacked board, its not going to be super helpful. Also popularity of decks in the metagame is based on actual results, the percentages of decks that post solid results in tournaments. So yea, I'll go with "popular" over your personal opinion any day. I'm not going to change the colors of this deck, so if thats your goal, take off cause it's not going to happen.
May 22, 2018 10:51 p.m.
DankStompy says... #14
ROFLMAO! WOW! you'll go with whats "popular" over what actually works? you're REALLY gonna try to say that a decks popularity innately makes it better? are you freaking joking? and did you REALLY just say that Thoughtseize is "bad" because it might be bad late game? wow. stop playing this game. you are bad at it. you do realize Thoughtseize is a $20 card because of how crazy good it is right?
May 22, 2018 10:55 p.m.
DOGxOFxWAR says... #16
Control tends to rely more on counter spells, Not Burn Spells
May 22, 2018 10:59 p.m.
DOGxOFxWAR says... #17
DankStompy.. Thoughtseize is widely considered the best spell in its Role compared to Duress for the costs,Rebound,& fetch capability. I Agree.
May 22, 2018 11:05 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #18
DankStompy, get off my post. You're a rude, arrogant jerk and I don't appreciate your hostile attitude at all. I'm blocking you. Goodbye.
May 22, 2018 11:07 p.m.
DankStompy says... #19
HillyerGames yeah i know lol. but uh...how are you getting so many tokens and such huge creatures in modern? +500/+500?
May 22, 2018 11:11 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #20
HillyerGames, I have plenty of counter spells in here with Spell Snare, Logic Knot, Negate, and Cryptic Command. Its a pretty balanced build.
May 22, 2018 11:13 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #22
Dude leave don't you have anything better to do than troll people on the internet? Get a life.
May 22, 2018 11:20 p.m.
Now now everyone. Starting now just go your separate ways guys and gals.
May 22, 2018 11:21 p.m.
DankStompy says... #24
see that just proves you don't know what trolling means. i mean you're free to ignore my sound advice, but that doesnt make it trolling. i mean, you're the one saying Thoughtseize is bad. and thats not exactly a good sign if you're trying to be competitive.
May 22, 2018 11:22 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #25
Alright sure dude. I'm glad you have such a high opinion of yourself. Now leave please. I don't want your advice or your opinions.
May 22, 2018 11:25 p.m.
DOGxOFxWAR says... #26
ArchonBlue.. I dont dislike what your trying to do at all. Its got potential for sure. I think you will run into Mana Problems,if your adding Blue, and sometimes never see couple those cards since its a bit "Diluted" by lots of spells. thats all i can offer as opinion really.. Ever considered to run some of Reds best "Controllers" like Dire Fleet Daredevil or Ahn-Crop Crasher? they can be effective unless you are after the Exile and remove their weapons type control. LoL Im still trying to find a balanced but focused use for this weird card..Eternal Dominion, But seriously, Keep at it, Its your deck and your time and money I say. H/F
May 23, 2018 12:35 a.m.
Has Torrential Gearhulk completely gone out of fashion for this type of deck? It's pretty sweet when it flashbacks a Cryptic Command for free...
May 23, 2018 3:11 a.m.
Well some people above had a point.
Lightning Bolt is a TERRIBLE removal spell. (It doesn't remove creatures...) Consider only the 2 most played decks in the format, humans and hollow one - bolt doesn't do anything against humans as soon as they got a few counters (and since that is the decks goal, they will get counters), and against the hollow one, its able to kill creatures that return from the grave and the 4x flameblade adept, meaning it does diddle against 80% of the decks threats. Path to Exile is clearly the king of 1 cmc removal, but even Fatal Push is miles ahead of lightning bolt. Creatures with 4 or more toughness are not exactly hard to come by. The saving grace of lightning bolt is the fact that it can go to face. However, that is anything but a control play. I am not saying it is not a valid course of action.
I am saying that this is a tempo/aggro-control deck, and this is a control deck.
Of course the new fad is to call everything control - including even things like gideon tribal, that splashes blue for spreading seas and a few counterspells.
May 23, 2018 4:34 a.m.
lightning bolt is pretty good against alot of decks and not that good against others, but its flexible and helps this deck to wins games.
It doesnt make sence to critisize biolt in a jeskai list becauae it will always be a 4 of. one luitnant dosent get most of humans creatures out of bolt range so thats reall not a problem
HillyerGames the deck is called jeskai dontrol and is not a burn deck. its pretty well established an the most popular control deck in modern
May 23, 2018 7:07 a.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #30
lukas96 would have to disagree with your last comment. As far as my research can reach, it seems the most popular control deck in modern right now is, teferi control, which is just U/W.
May 23, 2018 7:16 a.m.
mtg goldfish lists UWR with 4,7 and UW with 1,5% meta share. But that doesnt really matter the numbers are not relibale and thats not the point
May 23, 2018 7:22 a.m.
Lightning Bolt is TERRIBLE removal spell? that's... quite a statement. It's actually pretty good. Since it can go to the face, it isn't blanked by lack of targets (the same can't be said for either of the nearest similar cards: Fatal Push and Path to Exile), and with Snapcaster Mage, that face-burning option can be very real threat. And in UR/x decks this is even more so: You hold up 4 mana for Cryptic Command, but nothing show up to command in cryptic ways? ok, spend 4 mana on bolt-snapcast-bolt at end of turn, and now you have an attacker on your turn... and a cryptic command to tap all possible blockers (unless you were bluffing that one anyway).
It might be a point that Lightning Bolt is bad against B/R hollow one, but against humans it's decent enough. You can play it from turn 1 to kill the very first Champion of the Parish that hits the table, and a lot of creatures in the human deck require 3 counters before they outgrow Lightning Bolt, which does take a little while. And the field of decks to play against in modern is so much greater than just those two decks...
So, removal early-game/reach late-game, for 1 mana at instant speed is now terrible? D*mn, that modern format is moving too fast for me to follow.
May 23, 2018 9:19 a.m.
If a given spell can't remove creatures, its a very poor removal spell.
The fact that it can go to the face, will not maker it better at removing creatures. I am not implying that its a bad spell, its a great spell, just not a great removal spell.
May 23, 2018 1:16 p.m.
thats just complete bullshit
it can remove about 80% of relevant creatures in the format thats defenitely enough to make it a good removal spell
May 23, 2018 1:40 p.m.
Ok...
I will concede that lightning bolt will kill humans if no Thalia's Lieutenant is afoot.
However after various humans the following are the most played creatures in modern, in this order: Scavenging Ooze, Tarmogoyf, Birds of Paradise, Tireless Tracker, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Gurmag Angler, Thought-Knot Seer, Bloodghast, Hollow One, Reality Smasher, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Arcbound Ravager, Etched Champion, Flamewake Phoenix, Ornithopter, Signal Pest, Vault Skirge, Memnite, Steel Overseer, Courser of Kruphix, Goblin Guide, Matter Reshaper, Wurmcoil Engine, Master of Etherium...etc.
So out of those 24 creatures it can kill, like what? 9 of them? and a not insignificant amount of these cards are just enablers like Birds of Paradise, Goblin Guide, or various cheapo artifacts - yeah its great if you can remove them before the opponent is established.
But there is one thing that is even better, if the same spell you could use to kill these enablers would also hit the power cards they let the opponent play. Since in that case, the card actually does something if you topdeck it later.
Oh yeah it can go to face, tell that to Wurmcoil Engine...
Wouldn't Path to Exile do the job better? ...i mean do the job at all. If it can't remove relevant creatures its not a removal spell - if its very conditional its a bad removal spell.
May 23, 2018 3:50 p.m.
there are 4 paths in th deck so what are you even arguimng for at this point?
Removing a birds of paradise or a goblin guide can be vital for a deck like this and I can guarantee you that you dont want to path a bird.
yeah bolt is bad against tron and delv creatures and even a large tarmogoyf but that doesnt make it a bad removal spell because there are like 5 decks playing these cards.
May 23, 2018 4:11 p.m.
Well we got one DankStompy stating that esper control is strictly worse since Fatal Push is worse removal than Lightning Bolt...
This is why i made my comment, i didn't really expect to be swarmed by people bullshitting me about how its the most versitile and strongest removal ever printed at its mana cost.
Why are people running Abrade over Lightning Bolt in decks that don't depend on the reach provided by the "deals 3 damage to player" mode, if bolt is so great?
May 23, 2018 4:18 p.m.
Well fair point then. But if you say something like bolt is a bad card that you have to expect a backlash
I think jeskai is indeed better becausr its more flexible and faster than esper. But this is not really th
Bolt is defenitely not a bad removal spell and i find it pretty hard to compare bolt path and push since all have their advantages and disadvantages.
May 23, 2018 4:34 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #40
Right, but this deck also runs 4x Path to Exile and a bunch of boardwipes, so Lightning Bolt is just utility its not the definitive removal spell for the deck.
May 23, 2018 4:35 p.m.
This the top 10-most played creatures in modern according to mtggoldfish.
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Street Wraith
4 Bloodbraid Elf
5 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
6 Scavenging Ooze
7 Tarmogoyf
8 Birds of Paradise
9 Reflector Mage
10 Phantasmal Image
If this is the list of commonly occurring creatures, Lightning Bolt seems like a very reasonable removal spell. That perhaps explains why it is the most commonly played non-creature spell, according to the same site.
Is anyone playing Abrade over Lightning Bolt? Haven't seen any do that, but I haven't looked for it either.
Also, it's misleading to look at only one function of a card that has several, and where its flexibility is the whole reason to play it.
May 23, 2018 4:39 p.m.
You have some reading comprehension problems? Can you recall what were the first sentences of my post?
"I will concede that lightning bolt will kill humans if no Thalia's Lieutenant is afoot. However after various humans the following are the most played creatures in modern..."
Why would i not care about the low toughness of humans?
-
Its the most common deck and played with a pretty stock decklist, so all of its creatures gonna be the most played, despite that its barely above 10% of the meta.
-
Thus only considering humans will ignore ~88% of the meta.
-
Not to mention that humans decks play lords, hence the 2 & 3 toughness written on the cards is not what you gonna face on the battlefield, not to mention that cards like Thalia's Lieutenant grow, so they are much harder to deal with (using Lightning Bolt), than Master of the Pearl Trident, or Elvish Archdruid.
Tl;Dr - preparing for the meta by preparing for only the most popular (in this case 12% deck) is bound to leave you wide open to everything else, especially if that deck is humans, or affinity, decks that require very lean and narrow answers. Diversity in removal is not a bad thing.
And just because bolt can deal with those deck in the early turns fine, it doesn't mean that its a superior topdeck later, or that its useful against decks like eldrazi tron.
May 24, 2018 7:26 a.m.
Maybe Lightning Bolt is more popular because there are aggressive deck in the style of the old "sligh" decks, that intend to use it as a finisher, if they are missing out on the last points of damage? Like Hollow one - which incidentally often has Fatal Push in the side, just in case it needs removal? Or all kinds of red deck wins based strategies?
Maybe burn runs it as a 4 of?
May 24, 2018 7:30 a.m.
Its a removal spell in most decks and its usefull against most decks. The only tier decks where it isnt usefull as a removal spell is grixis deathshadow, tron, and valakut. Bogles just invalids every removal spell so im not talking thia i to account. Those decks represent around 10% of the meta. There is no reason to talk bad about bolt and certainly not in the context of jeskai because the deck needs a playset no matter how you turn and twist it.
May 24, 2018 5:12 p.m.
So whats Lightning Bolt gonna do against Hollow One, Gurmag Angler, Bloodghast, or Flamewake Phoenix? I mean its just the second most played deck in the dormat, so who cares....
(In my humble opinion poor old bolt is exquisitely useless against H1 decks. Moreover one of the main reasons behind the deck's success is that it has "hexproof" from both Lightning Bolt & Fatal Push.)
Its a removal spell until turn ~3, after that in the wast majority of cases it becomes a burn spell. I mean its used like discard, to disrupt early game, but has a mode where it can go to the dome, once it becomes useless.
And yes it will be played in jeskai. Still i would advocate diversifying the removal suite, by cutting some number of bolts in the main for Abrade - since the latter is much much better against the two most common decks (+ affinity), and not significantly worse in many other matchups - except maybe things like ponza?
May 24, 2018 5:25 p.m.
Yeah wow abrade ist not really better against affinity it can hit jollow one but against all their other threats it has the same problem as bolt has. Agai st every other deck its worse than LB... Sorry bit thats just stupid
May 25, 2018 5:30 a.m.
Jeskai has an amazing affinity MU. There is no need to change anything because of affinity.
May 25, 2018 5:33 a.m.
...because blowing up Aether Vial game one doesn't matter...
May 25, 2018 5:36 a.m.
Sorry ive never encountered someone whos that stubborn.
You dont want to cut a bolt for a radebecause there are some decks that opay either vial. Especially because you are favoured against humans.
Xica says... #2
Settle the Wreckage is very underplayed in your deck.
Its a board wipe that actually works against graveyard decks, its instant speed, so it allows you to keep mana open just in case your oponent doesn't wants to attack with all those creatures, but combo you out with something like the vizier druid or melira combo ... etc. And its the board wipe that actually works against boggles, and hollow one.
I have hard time why you should run cards like Anger of the Godsover it.
May 22, 2018 1:41 p.m.