Is the only problem with lifegain the thought that it's bad?
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on Aug. 12, 2024, 7:27 p.m. by Niko9
For a long time I had a combo lifegain deck that was kind of kitchen table soul sisters, and in that context I thought that it was a snowballey deck to play that was decent but never amazing, and I kind of figured that that's just how lifegain is in magic. But more recently I started playing more incidental lifegain, purely in 60 card, but I've had pretty interesting results.
The value of something like Revitalize can be kind of deceptive against an aggro or tempo deck. If I'm mitigating some of the early damage while also digging to a combo or a set up, that's extremely valuable. The way I see it a lot of the time is, my opponent attacked with some small creatures for a few turns and I gained the life back, so if I have a good late game plan, that lifegain buying me extra turns is kind of like having both extra ramp and extra draw.
Like, if Revitalize buys me one more turn in the game, it is kind of saying "1W- Draw 2 and add W to your mana pool" and that's an incredibly busted card.
Or something like Mire Triton that can not only delete the damage from early turn attacks but also deathtouch, that will almost always get you another turn down the road, and that's a whole new draw, land, and untap.
I don't know, and maybe it's just me, but I feel like I'm recently seeing a lot more potential in lifegain, not as an end goal, but as a value engine, or at least an engine that gets me to more value.
And I realize this doesn't work 100% of the time. If you match up against something turbo combo, or any variant of control, lifegain is going to be a bad bang for the buck.
Maybe I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this experience where at the end of the game you say, wait, did putting a pump spell on Healer's Hawk early, did that actually get my whole deck on line in the late game?
SteelSentry says... #3
Incidental life gain is great; if life is a resource, it's giving you more resources. It depends on the format though. Standard right now is aggro heavy, so control decks can run things like Union of the Third Path because they're just buying time to turn the corner. In Commander, more life gives you the edge with effects that drain every opponent. Effects like Revitalize aren't always good, but if you're trying to run burn out of cards or in a UW/RW-based prowess deck it can help you win races against other creature decks. In all these cases, it's important to know why you're buying time and capitalizing on the time you buy with lifegain.
August 13, 2024 3:20 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #4
Number 1: yes, “did that extra 3 life win me the game?” is definitely a thing. 100%. Number 2: I wanted to second legendofa’s comment. Lifegain buys a lot of time, but unless you’re spending that life to draw cards or something it’s effectively like a mono-blue stasis/lock-out deck... where everyone is just waiting to deck themselves or something. Lifegain goodstuff That adds +1/+1 counters or whatever solves that issue, but has its own shortcomings. Overall I’m not a big fan of life gain.
August 13, 2024 10:09 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #5
This is a good opportunity to clarify, though: having some lifegain in a deck can be amazing (read: that whole “did those four life points I gained save me?” thing). I should be more clear that my disdain of lifegain is reserved for lifegain tribal, for lack of a better term. If you’ve build a giant Rube Goldberg lifegain machine, your table will tire of watching it click away... and may still just combo off with some wincon that doesn’t even care how much life you have. So I mostly just wanted to give the advice of: destroy your opponents rather than improve yourself ;p
August 13, 2024 1:51 p.m.
World_Peace says... #6
Truly incidental life gain like Scavenging Ooze, Fracturing Gust, and Whip of Erebos is fantastic because you are advancing your board and buffering your life total at the same time. Dedicated life gain like Stream of Life tends to be terrible, because you spend resources without improving your board, which leaves you vulnerable to further beat down. Soul Sisters works because it uses the life gain triggers to grow big beaters.
In theory a dedicated life gain spell that's big enough and cheap enough could be good, but I can only think of two that have ever seen competitive play as even sideboard cards. The high five life gain card from Unstable gained me 28 life for 1 mana once, that's enough to be a good card IMO.
August 13, 2024 2:18 p.m.
Yup World_Peace summed it up, lifegain just doesn't matter if you have lost on the board.
Inf lifegain combos like Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Spike Feeder are good because many strategies will have no way to deal you enough damage or win before they deck themselves
Timely Reinforcements is a cool lifegain card, usually a sideboard card for if you need to 'buy time' like you said, but you need to have a gameplan that can win with the time you bought.
August 13, 2024 7 p.m.
FormOverFunction Yep : ) My old lifegain deck does have some favorite cards like Selenia, Dark Angel but what I didn't really think about was that when I play somebody, some decks just have no answer for mass lifegain, and that feels terrible for me. It's like my opponent will either get under the soul sisters and kill me, or they won't and I eventually pump a big Bloodthirsty Aerialist, but no matter what I'm doing the same thing every time and it's super boring.
Pump effects targeting a Beloved Princess though? Just to reverse the pressure of somebody's hyper efficient new cards? I'm finding it sooooooooo useful : )
And really, a big part is probably just that I'm not buying new cards anytime soon, so I'm really getting a lot of miles out of the old binders and things, and trying things that I didn't think were very good, just to try them.
August 14, 2024 5:19 p.m.
World_Peace Scavenging Ooze is a perfect example! The lifegain isn't the best part of the card, and that's the best part of the lifegain.
And yep, 28 life for 1 does seem very good and also very legit high fiving : )
August 14, 2024 5:24 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #10
Accidental lifegain is almost as good as accidental “no one can gain life” lol Roiling Vortex, Leyline of Punishment, and Rain of Gore are such glorious unexpected rescue cards.
legendofa says... #2
Life gain is a good stall tactic. The problem comes when people overemphasize the stalling, so they have life totals in the hundreds or thousands and no way to actually close out the game.
Another thing is that unless you're seeing a lot of burn or hyper-aggro decks, life gain like Revitalize just puts you back where you were. If a 2-power creature attacks you twice, and you use Revitalize, you've undone some of the damage but haven't done anything to address the cause of the damage. Pumping a Healer's Hawk also puts pressure on your opponent with a beefy flying attacker.
Incidental life gain, through lifelink or in addition to another ability, is pretty good. Soul Sisters is a well-established archetype, and cards like Felidar Sovereign exist for a reason. If a deck is built to do nothing but gain life without a clear win condition, though, it only delays a loss. Maybe something like a 300-card deck that spams Elixir of Immortality could win a few games, but that sounds like a one-trick slog for everyone that can be played around with one sideboard card.
August 12, 2024 7:53 p.m.