Will this Game Ever Have a Polygamous/Polyamorous Relationship?
Posted on Feb. 21, 2021, 10:15 a.m. by DemonDragonJ
WotC has been making an effort to have characters who are less conventional in this game in recent years: for example, there have now been several homosexual couples, Alesha is transsexual, and Niko Aris is non-binary (although clearly physically male, due to their facial hair).
Therefore, I wonder if this game shall eventually have characters in a polygamous/polyamorous relationship, because that would be a new idea to explore, and such relationships still are not widely portrayed in mainstream media. I personally would like to see Tenchi Muyo-style harem antics in this game, because that would be a great way to provide some form of levity among a game that is usually very serious.
What does everyone else say about this? Will this game eventually have a polygamous or polyamorous relationship?
OK. So. Don't use transexual as a term. The better term is trans gender. Or just trans. Remember there is a space because it is descriptor, not a seperate class. Do not refer to a non binary person as physically male. They are non binary and their body is non binary. Stop gendering shit, there is a huge spectrum of body types and features and traits. Trying to classify stuff as "belonging" to one gender or another is pointless because there are so many exceptions. For example if ya have PCOS you might have facial hair. Or if your hormone levels are changed at all. Etc
And I question your take on polyamory. Harem anime, especially older harem anime is not a good model to be hoping for.
February 21, 2021 10:58 a.m.
I wanna say that MTG is a fantasy universe so why not? Does it add to the game? That I'm not sure.
February 21, 2021 11:23 a.m.
LeaPlath, may I please ask why "trans gender" is preferable to "transsexual?" Also, there is no way that a human can have facial hair without sufficient levels of testosterone, presuming that humanity in MtG follows the same rules of biology as do humans in actuality. I shall concede your point about PCOS, but "Niko" is a masculine name in actuality (usually as an abbreviation for Nicholas). Also, I chose to mention Tenchi Muyo, because it is one of the best-known series that focuses on polygamy/polyamory, but I could have used a more recent series as an example.
Grubbernaut, what is wrong with this thread?
Dromar39, if the characters whom I mentioned above have added to this game, what would be so different about having polygamy/polyamory?
February 21, 2021 11:50 a.m.
My guess is such a relationship would be a long way off. Polygamy has very little wide-spread acceptance among society, and Wizards does not tend to rock the boat. As mentioned above, Anime-style harems (of either gender, since there are both male and female harem anime) are not a good example. They are simple wish fulfilment aimed at whichever gender the anime is focused on, and not a depiction of a healthy or realistic relationship.
There are some works of science fiction that try to create polygamous relationships that were not just wish fulfilment (Heinlein and other authors active in the 60s, for example), but they also had varying degrees of success in creating believable relationships.
As for your other question, Gender and Sex are different terms. Gender is a sociological term that refers to how an individual identifies; Sex is a biological term that refers to an individual's chromosome pairing. The word "Transsexual" is outdated as it does not properly describe the fact that an individual is identifying as something different than their chromosomal biology. Transgender, on the other hand, is a more accurate description as it shows an individual has crossed (the etymology for the prefix "trans-") the non-biological identification line, taking a different role than they were biologically born into.
February 21, 2021 12:18 p.m.
Because I am a trans person, I am telling you so. Because that hasn't been the widely accepted term in over a decade. Hair can be caused by a whole range of things beyond testerone such as sensitivity to chemical changes in the body, body types, medical conditions etc. And it is really fucking offensive to refer to a non binary person as physically male. So stop that now.
Also what did I literally just say about gendering shit that doesn't need to be gendered. Blood and sand it is exhausting having to rexplain shit.
February 21, 2021 12:18 p.m.
DemonDragonJ: Its seems today that we dissect a persons great act to gender, race?, etc... We don't normally say A married man/woman did this great thing. So does the marriage effect the act of what happens? Having a character being polyamorous may or may not move the story to be better. Doesn't mean they can't make characters to do so.
February 21, 2021 12:19 p.m.
I seem to remember a thread about this topic from you several months ago, DemonDragonJ, and I wonder why you think our opinions on the matter would have changed.
I am going to post a paraphrased version of my comment from those many moons ago--
Not even close in relevancy and need for representation than LGBTQ (forgive me if that letter pairing is outdated) matters.
February 21, 2021 12:29 p.m.
@LeaPlath - I have no input on this topic, but I do have a comment about your last post. "Because I said so" is never going to teach or convince anyone of anything. In my opinion, the correct course of action is to do what did and explain why the term is unacceptable. Cure ignorance with knowledge, not beratement.
February 21, 2021 1:10 p.m.
I would say that because Magic the Gathering is a TCG based in fantasy/Multiverse; I think anything/everything is within the realm of possibility.
I think it boils down to Marketing/Capitalism in the end... Assuming "Tenchi Muyo-style harem antics" is what sells packs and influences enthusiasm/interest in the game for the better; then I don't see why it wouldn't be any different then having Ninjas and Dragons.
For me sexual orientation; gender or race of planswalkers/Creatures isnt why i got into this game.... I got into it because the art on the pile of cards in my older brothers sock drawer looked cool ( Azure Drake )... i didnt even know there was lore/story to the game until years later.
February 21, 2021 1:21 p.m.
In some of the art it looks like she has breast. Also ashiok was the original non binary character. But screw it if they want to bring in polygamy I'd be interested to see how its portrayed on the art. The story has been trash for awhile now. So just bring in all the weirdness
February 21, 2021 2:50 p.m.
Asking to be informed.
Why is transsexual a no-no? Call it ignorance or bigotry if you'd like. I'm confused because wasn't transsexual the accepted vernacular not too long ago? And now it isn't?
Also isn't being non-binary a choice? You feel that you are neither male nor female despite having the physical and genetic characteristics of one or the other?
February 21, 2021 3:48 p.m.
Mcat1999 - See my post above for why the word "transsexual" is not actually an accurate description of transgender individuals.
For your other question, being non-binary is one of the gender identities an individual might have. Niko, for example, is non-binary--they neither identify as male nor female, which is why Wizards was careful to give Niko physical characteristics and clothing choices that were reminiscent of both genders as well as use the non-gendered pronoun "they" when referring to Niko.
As a note, you should avoid using the word "choice" when discussing LGBT+ issues. In terms of gender studies, "choice" has a longstanding negative connotation as dismissing the reality of LGBT+ individuals, saying their lifestyle is a "choice" rather than an ingrained portion of their identity. I do not think you were using "choice" in a dismissive, negative connotation, and instead trying to ask whether being non-binary is a possibility--but wanted to still point this out so you could be sure to avoid the word in this context moving forward.
February 21, 2021 4 p.m.
LeaPlath, there is no possible way that I could have known that, so I am very sorry if anything that I said was offensive.
February 21, 2021 5:36 p.m.
That's the real issue here. How is anybody supposed to know what is and is not offensive to anyone else, when new terms and words and definitions constantly appear and vanish and change seemingly overnight. Compile this on top of faceless accounts and, even if the accounts have everything listed, who actually takes the time to read every single line of every single account they come across? And even if they did, those who you have never even heard of can still be offended.
That's my problem with this whole situation.
I don't care who is or is not what. You do you. Be proud of who you are, find happiness and peace at heart. Love yourself and be the best possible version of yourself they you can be. Grab the world by the unmentionables and make it your own.
But don't get pissy when someone uses a word you don't agree with, especially when we have zero clue of your personal history and beliefs.
Understand colloquial expressions like "yeah, man" and "hey dude" exist. Understand that gendered terminology exists. And for God's sake realize not every little infraction is a personal slight and attack against you.
Not everything is an Act of Aggression against you.
At a certain point, you are responsible for your own feelings. If you become irate and angry the moment you see someone use a word or a phrase you don't like, then guess what - you're part of the problem.
If you can't control your anger and if you can't control your "moral outrage" and if you can't control your superiority complex because you want to stand above everyone else and scream down at them for using language you deem irresponsible and offensive, then you are as much of an oppressor as you claim them to be.
Grow up. Get over it. Stop taking everything so personal. Stop being offended by everything. Realize a world exists outside of Vice / Vox / Polygon / Twitter / Tumblr / Reddit. Understand words have meanings and definitions and you can't just make new words up on the fly and change definitions and think the world will accept it over night.
And for God's sake, stop lashing out at every single person. If someone is unsure, uneducated, or uninformed and they ask a simple question or use a phrase or definition incorrectly and your immediate response is to throw vitriol at them, that is a sure-fire way to make them openly dismiss you as an asshole and immediately lose all respect for you.
Respect is earned. Not given. You want to be treated the way you feel you should be? Prove it by being better than a screaming child.
As I said. I'm all for people happily living their own lives.
If you're transgender or non-binary or demisexual or whatever, good for you. I'm genuinely happy you found a path in your life that lets you live comfortably and at peace.
But don't you dare, for one second, think that gives you the right to scream at others who don't know or understand what your life style means.
Whether it's an inherit part of your core being that was with you as a child, or a choice you developed later on in life as you stepped into the culture and found something you enjoy.
Yes. A choice.
There are people who openly choose to engage in the culture. That should not be offensive in the slightest and it is only in extreme ignorance to claim that not one single person in all of Humanity made a choice to become something different. We all have free will, we all have rational minds, we all have the ability to understand and think, to weigh options and to critically examine different aspects of our own existence.
There are people who have lived their entire life as a man, became involved in the LGBT community and realized they are happier as a woman.
It was their CHOICE to transition. Their CHOICE to explore using makeup and hair extensions. Their CHOICE to wear sexy dresses and leggings. Their CHOICE to end the He / Him pronouns and start using She / Her pronouns. It was their CHOICE to upload photos and change their profile to reflect how they truly feel.
That's a choice.
And to consider the idea of being able to choose as somehow invalid and insulting is beyond me. It shows a sheer lack of intelligence as it completely and fundamentally disregards the entire notion of a free society where we are able to choose who we are and what we become.
Like it or not, the fact of the matter is, many people out there transition only after becoming engaged in the culture. Even if they, deep down in their heart, have always felt more feminine or more masculine and therefore it was not a choice to feel this way... It was a choice to engage in the transition.
The idea that you can somehow feel justified in lashing out against others for their inability to know you're entire life's history and emotional state of being is utterly ignorant and appalling.
Respect is earned.
Present yourself as an asshole, get treated as an asshole.
You want people to respect you? Be polite, be nice, gently correct those who have made a mistake, take the time to explain yourself, and for Christ's sake be humble.
All that said.
All that aside.
Be the best person you can be.
Live the best life you can live.
Slay that one-piece dress.
Rock that three-piece suit.
Shatter the gendered norms.
Become the person you dream of.
Become the idol and role model to others.
Be their inspiration.
Be their shield against bigotry and hatred.
Do it for yourself.
Do it for them.
Make the world a better place.
But don't do it by being a screaming child who is offended by every little infraction you can possibly find to be angry about.
There is a difference between being a humble icon others look up to and adore,
And being the asshole that is dismissed and ignored.
So maybe, just maybe, the next time you see someone use the term "transsexual" instead of "transgendered" or refer to a non-binary person as "he" when that person very clearly is biologically male with an XY chromosome but identifies as neither male nor female, maybe... Just maybe... Realize this person doesn't live in the world you live in. They aren't apart of the culture you are part of. They aren't up-to-date with the language you are with.
It's entirely possible.
That they simply.
And lashing out at them, making them feel ignorant and attacked and abused?
That's one Hell of a sure-fire way to make them not only dismiss you as a person, but dismiss your entire culture with it.
So be better than that. Be better than this.
You want the hatred to stop?
Then stop being so hateful.
February 21, 2021 11:31 p.m.
Mcat1999 - Your first post was exactly the way to do it - you admit ignorance, ask for clarification, then - and this is the step you missed - listen to the information others provide. Going off on a long rant, seemingly because you were mad on behalf of others (after all, no one personally attacked you), about how put upon you feel is the exact opposite of listening.
February 22, 2021 12:07 a.m.
I can't speak from from my personal experiences; I am cis gender, always have been, and always will be. But as a friendly attempt at explanation to everyone who asks about someone else's gender identity: With all respect, why should somebody have to explain their life experiences to everybody? There is no expectation to know everything about a person on first contact, and it's unreasonable to assume that there is. But a person's identity is literally the most personal thing about them, and having it be constantly questioned can be annoying at best and deeply humiliating at worst.
Now, I'm going to assume there was no intentional malice in this thread. A question was asked, an answer received, and the questioner considers the matter finished. But how many times will a trans gender person have somebody question their life? How many times will somebody be unintentionally misgendered, unintentionally told that their biology is wrong, unintentionally told that their self-identity is wrong? I completely understand the desire to gain knowledge, but if somebody asks to be referred to as they, or a masculine-looking person requests she/her, or vice versa, the correct response isn't "Why?" The correct response is "Okay," with "Sorry, my mistake" if needed. Doing anything else is far too easy to be interpreted as deliberate disrespect.
On the subject of vocabulary, yes, it changes all the time. If you refer to somebody incorrectly, ask as privately as possible what they would prefer. If that's not feasible, they/them is generally acceptable. If you use an outdated term (historical trivia--"idiot" and "moron" were once technical psychiatric terms), apologize, and start using the up-to-date term as you think of it. Language changes, especially technical and sociological terms. They're notorious for that, and as long as you make a genuine effort to keep up, and self-correct when needed, you should be okay.
Like I said, this isn't my life, and every word I just said could be completely wrong. All the same, if you ask why somebody identifies themselves in a certain way, think about how many times they are asked that question. Think about if you would enjoy explaining every month, every week, every day that you're cis gender, that you identify as male or female or whatever. Think about somebody questioning your self-identity every time a semi-related topic comes up.
This is not intended as condemnation of anybody in this thread, but as social advice going forward. Be respectful and mindful of others' personal lives, and understand that you are not the first, and will not be the last, to ask someone a question they are tired of answering.
February 22, 2021 12:49 a.m.
Looks like we are two for two on over the top rants from someone who continues to know jackshit. We can tick finances and queer rights off the list of things he doesn't know about.
DemonDragonJ. There have been threads before you started where trans people have been mentioned and the correct terms were used then. You could of googled. You could of very easily known.
February 22, 2021 1:59 a.m.
LeaPlath, I meant that I did not know that you were trans.
February 22, 2021 6:36 a.m.
Ok, I'm going to shut this thread down now. I've been on the fence about letting it go, but I can see this getting derailed (again) pretty quickly. As much as conversations about these kind of topics are important, a Magic Forum with a bunch of anonymous users really isn't the place, as these conversations need to involve empathy and understanding on both sides and far too many times I have seen these forums devolve into screaming opinions into the abyss.
If people want to continue a private conversation (i.e. off the forums and in direct messaging or using something other than T/O directly), I don't mind, but I don't think this is conducive to having a meaningful conversation.