What is Your Opinion of Non-Blue Counterspells?
General forum
Posted on Oct. 22, 2021, 10:50 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Counterspells are a signature ability of blue, and, as such, nearly all counterspells are blue, but WotC does print non-blue counterspells on occasion; there were a number of non-blue counterspells in the early days of this game, before WotC had clearly defined the color pie, but, now that the color pie is better defined, there have been very few non-blue counterspells in recent years.
WotC did print Tibalt's Trickery in Kaldheim, but, prior to that, there had not been a non-blue counterspell since Lapse of Certainty from the Alara block, to the best of my knowledge, so it is clear that WotC is very reluctant to print such cards. Mark Rosewater has even said that he considers both Red Elemental Blast and Guttural Response to be color pie breaks and that white can having "taxing" effects (i.e., making spells more expensive), but not direct counterspells, which I severely dislike, since I believe that non-blue counterspells can be acceptable if they are extremely narrow in their effect.
What does everyone else say about this? What are your opinions of non-blue counterspells? Do you think that such cards should exist, or that counterspells should be strictly blue?
Grubbernaut says... #3
In non-standard sets, and for very specific uses, I'd say I'm okay with it. The blasts and Guttural Response seem 'right,' to me. Deflecting Swat is probably the least red-feeling type of effect like this, IMO.
I think a white Spell Pierce would be neat, and justifiable. White could also play with "return spell to hand" or tucking effects, too, for my take.
October 22, 2021 11:17 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #4
I'd love to see more cards like Dash Hopes and Rebuff the Wicked, maybe even Dawn Charm, Avoid Fate, Tibalt's Trickery (that says opponent's spell), etc. too.
October 22, 2021 11:26 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
Omniscience_is_life, Grubbernaut, I would very much like to see a white version of Spell Pierce, or even a white version of Mana Leak, although the latter would likely be too powerful. I also think that a white version of Stifle would be properly narrow to work within white's philosophy, as well.
October 22, 2021 11:33 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #6
I think the avenues white could realistically approach are taxing non-creature spells, countering spells that target you or a permanent you control, or psuedo-counters giving your things/spells hexproof.
I think counters that could target anything would be a bridge too far. Blue is always going to be strongest, and for my take, I'm okay with that being the case - but there's interesting design space to explore elsewhere, too.
October 22, 2021 11:41 p.m.
My thoughts on every independent color's counterspell potential:
can unconditionally counter anything.
taxes and delays all types of spells. At higher rarities, I can see something like "Counter target enchantment spell. Its controller creates a 1/1 Soldier token." or something, but that would be very occasional.
can maybe counter creatures or be prevented by a payment. I'm looking at cards like Cradle to Grave, Dash Hopes, and Force of Despair as variations of this, but Planar Chaos shouldn't really be a precedent for anything and two of those aren't really counterspells.
explicitly shouldn't counter its own stuff, it should be more like a randomizing effect, and it should only appear at higher rarities. If Tibalt's Trickery said "Counter target spell an opponent controls." it would work. This isn't just to cut down on combo abuse, but doesn't really have that kind of subtle, what-are-you-planning approach that would lead to knowingly setting something up to fail. Red self-sabotages haphazardly, not deliberately.
counters and spells that target its creatures. Specifically. That's all it should get, and even that could be pared down.
October 23, 2021 12:47 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #8
legendofa remember Withering Boon as a better example of anti-creature black countermagic!
October 23, 2021 1:03 a.m.
SynergyBuild Perfect example, once you get past the outdated templating.
October 23, 2021 2:25 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #10
I personally like playing Magic on the battlefield, not on the stack. For the purpose of "Gotcha, you didn't expect this from this color" we have enough cards printed, more of them wouldn't necessarily feel right. It's an effect best used sparingly, too much of it will make everything feel like playing blue, because intervention on the stack is such a powerful effect.
I'd rather see blue get less than every other color get more.
October 23, 2021 10:21 a.m.
Feel the same about them in any color :) -- A waste of time. I like spells that repurpose other spells & keep the game going... Just not in the direction the original caster intended. Same reason I'm still cool with Narset's Reversal
Grubbernaut to me Deflecting Swat feels very . It doesn't cancel action.. it reallocates it. Also, there is a whole bunch of precedent for that effect. Off the top of my head Bolt Bend, Shunt & several others that I would have to look up.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
I've mentioned this before: it's not restriction of card that makes it fit in the color pie--in other words, look more for what the card does than what it doesn't.
The fact that Tibalt's Trickery makes sense for red is that it's a chaos effect, at heart. It transforms a spell into something new and random, rather than just deny it like blue would.
White historically does tax very well, so I think Mana Tithe-type cards honestly fit better into the color pie than Spell Pierce-type cards.
October 22, 2021 11:14 p.m.