What can a good deck get done in 5 turns?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 1, 2021, 2:21 p.m. by Nsuper
Think of a good deck in your preferred format(s). What is the best that deck can accomplish after 5 turns (or less)? What would the average deck accomplish in 5 turns?
wallisface says... #6
To expand on what the others have said - all the eternal formats are fast and reliable. Within the first 5 turns a deck will have either won or put themselves soo far ahead that the winner is already clear. Speaking from Modern, combo decks reliably can win on T3. Aggro decks, like infect, look to close the game out on T2-to-3. There are decks that take longer to win, but by turn 5 its normally pretty clear who the victor is. Modern itself is considered a “4 turn” format because by that stage the game is normally over-with
I can’t speak for standard, but I suspect the Turn-5 “the winner is already clear” mantra also applies there.
January 1, 2021 3:56 p.m. Edited.
My Vito deck is a quick win! Lots of different two-card combos. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose-v-20/
January 1, 2021 3:58 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #8
Thumbscrews, Yixlid Jailer, Scalding Tongs, and an Isolation Cell. Flavor win on turn five. Every time without fail. ;p
January 1, 2021 6:32 p.m.
wallisface: Really? I have been doing it wrong then. I just struggle to understand what exactly I need to do to build a winning combo. I usually play modern and the best combo I have the resources to build is High Alert, Humongulus, and Aether Tunnel, (but this is not turn 4). What kind of cards/combos would be needed to win on turn 4 in modern?
January 2, 2021 11:05 a.m.
wallisface thats actually a misconception of what is meant by "turn 4 format". wotc has called modern a "turn 4 format" because they want games to last at LEAST that long. combo and aggro decks that "can" win turn 3 don't do it consistently. wotc has stated that any tier 1 deck capable of consistent turn 3 wins would definitely be getting a card banned.
allyrose there are better ways to link decks.
Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose (V. 2.0)
Commander / EDH
54 VIEWS
January 2, 2021 5:48 p.m.
how is High Alert, Humongulus, and Aether Tunnel a combo?
January 2, 2021 5:52 p.m.
What matters more is how competitive you want to be and what your budget is. For Modern, I would take a good look at the top competitive decks at any website that tracks them. Here is a link: MTGTOP8
And some formats have competitive decks that can win as early as the first 3 turns with good opening hands and undisrupted play. Including Commander.
January 2, 2021 5:57 p.m.
wallisface says... #13
Keqing420 - yeah I get that wizards state that modern should last at least 4 turns, and that's where the "turn 4 format" comes from. But i think the reality is that it's not really the case. Devoted Druid can regularly win on T3, and for that matter almost all the combo decks, assuming they're not interacted with and left to do their thing. I'd suggest that by turn 4, in 80%+ of modern games, the winner has been decided or, its obvious who's in a dominating position. In any game where one of the players is either combo or aggro, this will particularly be the case (less so in cases where both players are midrange/control).
I do get that I probably shouldn't have referenced the "turn 4 format" in the way that I did in my last post, as it creates a misconception around what it's meant to mean
January 2, 2021 9:12 p.m.
wallisface says... #14
Nsuper the common Modern combos that I can think of right now are:
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Devoted Druid combo, using Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, and then usually Walking Ballista.
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Storm decks, using Grapeshot, and then a billion spells that gain mana, draw cards, and recast stuff from the grave.
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Goblins have a combo in Conspicuous Snoop and Boggart Harbinger, by then fiddling with the top of their deck to put Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Sling-Gang Lieutenant on top.
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more i'm forgetting
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Outside of combo, I would think most burn, aggro, and mill decks can close out and win the game regularly between turns 2-5 (mill less so if it's doing it with control-elements). When I say "aggro" I'm thinking Hardened Scales, Infect, Prowess, Dredge, "Hammer Time".
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Tron often also can force the opponent to scoop on turn 3 or 4 if they can get Tron going on T3 and drop some BS like Karn.
January 2, 2021 9:21 p.m.
wallisface i dont think devoted druid is really part of the meta anymore, so it doesn't meet the "tier 1" requirement. i had to go pretty far down the list of mtggoldfish decks before i found a devoted druid deck, and its 0.6% of the meta. in fact the only combo deck in the top 10 is heliod company, and that deck can't pull off its combo before turn 4, based on the list i'm seeing.
January 2, 2021 9:34 p.m.
wallisface: i've beaten a turn 3 karn with 5c slivers lol
January 2, 2021 9:36 p.m.
wallisface says... #17
Keqing420 combo’s not big in the meta at the moment because the current meta in general hoses a lot of these strategies. Those decks will probably be back in some form-or-another when the meta inevitably shifts direction in the future (as it always does). In any case, they were simply examples of reliable combos that win before Turn 5, so do with that what you will. (I was unaware of any “tier-1 requirement” as I didn’t see any mention of this above?)
You did well beating Tron with Slivers - them having Oblivion Stone, and Slivers not being terribly fast/resilient/interactive can make it tricky. So well done!
January 3, 2021 7:07 a.m. Edited.
Keqing420: It is not an infinite combo, but because he is an unblockable 5/5 with hexproof. It is not the fastest thing, but I have enough draw spells and removal to survive a little while. It was based off of standard at the time so the best removal spell would probably have been Cleansing Nova or Detection Tower (after which I have enough draw to redo the combo). I do not have a lot of rares/mythics, but if you give me a bunch of miscellaneous cards, I can make do.
wallisface: Holy cow those are a few good combos. Thank you for the inspiration!
MagicMarc: Yeah... whenever I compare my decks to the higher-rated few-turn-win decks on this website I become a little depressed. Also, good website! I never saw it before.
January 3, 2021 11:13 a.m.
wallisface: i did mention the tier 1 requirement when i said that wotc comes down on any tier 1 deck that consistently wins turn 3. my own sliver build is actually pretty fast, and you can see the list on my profile.
Nsuper wouldn't really call that a combo. the High Alert isn't even useful there since its nothing more than 2 extra "power".
January 3, 2021 3:57 p.m.
wallisface says... #20
Keqing420 we’re drifted iff topic a bit with the Sliver convo - my point of Tron being a tough matchup it is that Slivers will almost always be giving Tron 4 turns, that’s enough to play either Oblivion Stone or big Ugin (either board wipes you and probably secures a Tron win)... the game plays out where the Tron deck is almost 100% deciding who wins based on what hand they keep, and Slivers are kindof just along for the ride.
Saying all that, I see your particular sideboard is very geared towards disrupting these kinds of decks, so that’ll give your particular brew a much better fighting chance.
In any case, to try & tie this back to the original thread, I don’t think Slivers fits in the list of “5 Turn win” aggro decks, though it’s close. It’s in a similar group to Merfolk where it can swing for crazy amounts vs uninteractive decks that are slower - but the reality is that matchup is quite rare.
January 3, 2021 4:16 p.m.
wallisface: the tron player doesn't really control anything. its basically a matter of if they can play ugin or stone on turn 4, otherwise they lose. and since they only play about 2 of each, they're hopin to draw into a specific 1/15th of their deck (they would need to draw an average of 15 cards before seeing one of their answers), while only seeing about 10 or maybe 11 cards by their 4th turn. so statistically, the odds are in my favor being an aggro deck. pretty easy to have a buncha 4/4's in play by turn 3
January 3, 2021 4:27 p.m.
wallisface says... #22
Nsuper if you’re looking to try do fast games on a budget, here are some links:
3 budget combo decks - in particular a guy at my local game store runs a more expensive version of that first deck to moderate success.
Decent budget decks - these are all pretty cheap, and most of these look like they can close the game out pretty fast. In particular, Storm is a pretty strong deck for its monetary cost (we have a few guys playing this in paper and they’ve won their fair share of events).
Hopefully this helps give you some inspiration for decks that are within a realistic price range :)
January 3, 2021 4:29 p.m.
wallisface says... #23
Keqing420 assuming they run only 2 stones & 2 ugins, they have a 39% chance of having one in their opening 7 cards, assuming no mull. With Tron being comfortable london-mulling down to 4-or-5 cards, they should be able to start with one of these cards fine (and if they don’t, ancient stirrings digs deep). The big question will be whether they can also assemble Tron within the first 4 turns, which should also be fairly likely considering the number of cards the deck has to help that happen. I don’t think the odds are hugely in your favour at all, game 1.
As said before though, your particular brew of sideboard goes a long way to shutting Tron down game 2 onwards.
We are getting waaay off topic. Lets move this convo to another thread, if you want to continue it :)
January 3, 2021 4:42 p.m.
wallisface: Those are some really good resources, thank you!
January 4, 2021 9:27 a.m.
TriusMalarky says... #25
Fling a 129/129 snake at your opponent after drawing your deck several times over.
Oh wait, that combo died . . . RIP Minecraft combo.
Ah well, guess I'll find a way to win with Storm Crow t2.
January 4, 2021 10:21 a.m.
Even a good deck can deny me lands after 5 turns have come and gone.
See also: Even a good deck can flood me out after 5 turns have come and gone
January 4, 2021 2:07 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #27
A perfect deck with a perfect hand can win by turn 5 in almost any format, including draft and 4 player commander. That said, a FUN deck can be doing whatever it pleases at turn 5. If you build that perfect deck, I won't be playing with you. If you instead build that fun deck, I'll include you in the casual games I play with friends. (not an actual invite, just making a point. Sorry. My area's still in lockdown due to a COVID spike.)
shadow63 says... #2
Win
January 1, 2021 2:27 p.m.