Most Underwhelming Planeswalker Ultimates?
General forum
Posted on March 17, 2014, 9:20 a.m. by Arorsthrar
Which planeswalker Ultimates do you think are the least powerful/exciting/etc.?
Magiclover318 says... #3
Yeah Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is just the absolute worst.
I think Chandra, the Firebrand for next worse or Koth of the Hammer haha
Chandra Nalaar was a better PW than the Firebrand.
March 17, 2014 9:45 a.m.
A lot of those could still conceivable win the game on their own or put you in a great position to win. Liliana of the Dark Realms requires cards in hand or board and ideally spells or abilities that benefit from being able to sink mana in them. You could crack her ult and have the game play out exactly the same as if you hadn't.
March 17, 2014 9:58 a.m.
I'll defend Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded by saying its a cheap Insurrection but it doesn't change the fact that he is pretty bad.
March 17, 2014 10:01 a.m.
i think tibalt, koth and both chandras have fine, potentially game-ending ultimates.
i think Ajani Goldmane has the weakest ultimate. an giant x/x vanilla is pretty lame, unless you already have a way to make him evasive or a clear board for him to swing in. but if you have those then you were probably already winning.
March 17, 2014 10:03 a.m.
Liliana of the Dark Realms is a pretty valid do-nothing ultimate too.
March 17, 2014 10:05 a.m.
Ajani Goldmane . It's really pretty weak.
Tibalts is great considering you only paid 2 for him and it COULD end a game.
March 17, 2014 10:21 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #10
I think Thibault's ult is one of the few that could actually end the game when you pull the trigger. Liliana of the Dark Realms only matters if you have a massive mana dump like Rakdos's Return or something. I actually like tibalt's ult. He just sucks terribly otherwise
March 17, 2014 11:06 a.m.
the5ervant says... #11
Jace Beleren got a massive upgrade with Jace, Memory Adept . Same ultility, but just better.
March 17, 2014 11:22 a.m.
Is everyone disregarding the OBVIOUS point that ultimates from 3 and 4 drop planeswalkers seem weak compared to their 5cmc counterparts?
March 17, 2014 11:24 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #13
I would love to have a Liliana of the Dark Realms . I also need tutor lili, and sorin markov for my mono black EDH.
March 17, 2014 11:47 a.m.
brokendwarf says... #14
Ral Zarek could go either way. You could build up all those points and end up getting 0 additional turns.
March 17, 2014 11:56 a.m.
MrAptronym says... #17
Ajani Goldmane has the worst ultimate by far. Vraska the Unseen is no prize either in that regard. Especially since they cost 4 and 5 mana, those ultimates are too easily countered. Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is the worst planeswalker, sure, but his ultimate is alright especially since he just costs 2. The big issue is that your opponents see it coming and will probably just not play threats in response. (Assuming they don't think they can stop it) However, at least it will ensure you have an uncontested attack.
March 17, 2014 3:44 p.m.
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded may be a terrible Planeswalker, but the ultimate is great.
March 17, 2014 4:06 p.m.
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded could potentially win a game with his ultimate.
I've seen Liliana of the Dark Realms ultimate and it can be really problematic, actually.
Koth of the Hammer actually has a really dangerous ultimate.
I would go with Chandra, Pyromaster , Vraska the Unseen or Ajani Goldmane .
March 17, 2014 6:03 p.m.
Rhinowarrior says... #20
I play commander and ajani goldmane in the right lifegain deck is a beast! 20/20 put trample on it and then swing next turn!
March 17, 2014 6:16 p.m.
The problem with AJani is that as it stands, it DOESN'T have trample. If you give the token trample then I'm sure it's fantastic. But then that's like saying that populating the tokens that Vraska makes, means that he has the best ultimate. It's sort of not that valid because we're talking about a very specific situation.
March 17, 2014 6:20 p.m.
Rhinowarrior says... #22
wait vraska is a dude!? and a populate token deck with ajani and vraska would be kinda fun... new deck idea!
March 17, 2014 6:22 p.m.
No, Vraska is a woman (I think). Even in an EDH environment, Ajani's ultimate avatar is the pinnacle of "dies to doom blade" logic. There are so many ways around it that I'd take his +2 over his ultimate in almost any situation, because it's more guaranteed to net me more value.
Good luck with that deck idea, though.
March 17, 2014 6:31 p.m.
Tezzeret the Seeker is one of my all-time favorite planeswalkers, but that ain't because of his ultimate.
March 17, 2014 6:31 p.m.
@Alizer313: Tezzeret the Seeker 's ultimate is obscene in a deck full of low casting cost artifacts, like Sol Ring , Voltaic Key , and Mox Sapphire . Ticking him up twice, then pulling an army of 5/5s out of nowhere is really powerful.
I still like Ajani Goldmane 's ultimate over Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded because it relies on your opponents' boardstate. If you're up against control, for example, they may have nothing on their side of the table. Ajani Goldmane at least synergizes with the rest of his abilities, can be populated or copied, and works no matter what your opponent is playing.
March 17, 2014 6:58 p.m.
If you're running Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded against control, his -4 is a wincon in itself.
Then again, if you're running Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded at all, you're probably not magicking correctly.
March 17, 2014 7:03 p.m.
Vraska the Unseen is only good if you can give it intimidate. Too bad black or green doesn't give it....oh wait, BLACK CAN GIVE INTIMIDATE!!!! You drop a Mogis's Marauder after ultimating Vraska, and it's an insta-win. Koth of the Hammer has a pretty bad one. Chandras (Chandra Nalaar , Chandra, the Firebrand , Chandra, Pyromaster , and Chandra Ablaze ) all have decent ultimates, because they can all become instant board wipes.Liliana of the Dark Realms was designed to be built off of with cards like Rise of the Dark Realms and Rakdos's Return . Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is the 2nd worst due to his transparency. No one puts out threats when Tibalt has a chance of being ultimated. Ajani Goldmane has a decent ultimate because trample is extremely easy to distribute. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver has a bad one because everyone will kill it first, or after ultimating, it won't have enough loyalty counters to X itself, making it pretty useless, seeing as the card revolves around the X. (gonna get hate for this, can already tell)Nissa Revane is the worst planeswalker period because SHE HAS NO FLEXIBILITY!!!!!!! She only fits in an Elf heavy deck.
March 17, 2014 7:44 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #29
I think Ajani Goldmane 's ultimate is top-notch. I mention in the description of one of my decks:
March 17, 2014 7:59 p.m.
sylvannos: Understood, but at that rate, if you're running so many artifacts, you might as well be grabbing combo pieces. I suppose it adds some versatility. Good point.
March 17, 2014 8:10 p.m.
Vraska the Unseen ultimate + Mogis's Marauder = insta-win? I didn't even realize you were the only player in the world that ran black creatures/artifact creatures.
I also didn't realize that opponents refusing to play threats against you (in the case of Tibalt) was a bad thing.
I also didn't realize that Nissa Revane was bad because she fits so perfectly in a tier 1 tribal deck.
Ajani Goldmane ultimate still dies to almost every removal in the game. I'm not one for the "dies to doom blade" logic, but this avatar is extremely easy to remove. The Chandra board wipe logic is true, but if you're depending on a planeswalker to board wipe after a 4+ mana investment and at least a 2 turn survival period... well, what are you even playing red for.
I do very much agree on Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver . Forgot about that one. Her ultimate is kind of counterproductive.
March 17, 2014 8:23 p.m.
I think Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver 's ultimate is a way to combat decks that don't use many creatures, so that Ashy won't be totally dead on the field. Just speculating.
March 17, 2014 8:30 p.m.
@Alizer313: You grab Voltaic Key and Time Vault , then use Tezzeret the Seeker 's ultimate to actually win the game after you take infinite turns. Your opponent may not scoop right away if you have a Dark Confidant or Mana Crypt out that can potentially kill you.
March 17, 2014 8:44 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #34
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver has a pretty tame ultimate, it is not terrible in my opinion but doesn't stand out in terms of "excitement". Garruk, Caller of Beasts ultimate I found to be lacking also. Maybe it is just the first two abilities out shine the third.
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded runs well in a Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck. You always have spare cards, your opponents hands should be full most of the time, and to reach his ultimate in a pillow fort style Nekusar deck works out. (Tibalt being useful what is this a fake comment)
Also does Gideon Jura really have an ultimate? He seems to be more of a collection of "I do stuff" and "I will punch you".
March 17, 2014 8:49 p.m.
codebread first ashiok is a dude. not kidding. and what did you mean about Vraska? Where did you get artifacts from? And the point of why Nissa is bad is because a good planeswalker can work in multiple strategies, in multiple deck types. The Chandra idea i was applying to EDH. Ajani can be doom bladed, and so can about 90% of the cards in magic. That's like saying that Kozilek is bad because i can doom blade him. Or Kalonian Hydra. Or Polukranos. Tibalt is bad because all you have to do is drop a turn 3-5 card (ones that have that much power) and kill him quickly.
March 17, 2014 9:11 p.m.
codebread mistake in meaning concerning the doom blade comment. meant to point out most of the creatures in magic are easy to remove. accidentally used doom blade as an example
March 17, 2014 9:13 p.m.
amishrambo says... #37
Jace, the Mind Sculptor cause no one popped it ever it basically wins the game in the most boring way possible
March 17, 2014 9:22 p.m.
Ashiok is a dude? That's news. And disturbing.
Intimidate = cannot be blocked except by black or artifact creatures. That's what you were getting at, right.
I'm not saying Ajani's ultimate is bad because it can be doom bladed. I'm saying that it's vanilla. Other creatures can get value just for mana (values range). Ajani needs four mana and a minimal two turns online before you get a vanilla creature with no evasion whose p/t can fluctuate unpredictably. And like I said, no evasion. It can be chumped with ease. And your Tibalt logic can be considered for any planeswalker. In fact, Tibalt has less of a chance of that happening because he's just not intimidating at all; most players would just ignore him.
March 17, 2014 10:01 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #40
I've played Koth in legacy before. Every ability is sweet in the right deck, and the only good answers to it are countering him or playing True-Name Nemesis , because the ultimate lets you murder things easily, and straight up slaughter you enemies.
March 18, 2014 12:19 a.m.
@Alizer313: No gender? Wait, what species is it? I'm not in on Theros' lore.
March 18, 2014 1:40 a.m.
@codebread: According to Doug Breyer, Ashiok is not a native of Theros, but rather a traveler from afar. Wherever Ashiok is from, it is evident that this planeswalker is no longer human, but rather a manifestation of his/her own magic; a living nightmare.
March 18, 2014 2:02 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #43
Garruk, Caller of Beasts clearly doesn't belong in this conversation. If his ultimate doesn't lead to an easy win, you did something very, very wrong with either deckbuilding or decision-making. Don't forget that his plus fills your hand with creatures to get things going. I actually pulled that one off to beat a UW deck on Friday since my Elvish Mystic s and Sylvan Caryatid s were spawning guys like Nylea, God of the Hunt , Prime Speaker Zegana and Prophet of Kruphix .
Since my experience is in Standard, I would have to go for Chandra, Pyromaster . Extremely hit-or-miss. Liliana of the Dark Realms ' ult can also be pretty worthless, but then again that card is pretty worthless in general.
March 18, 2014 5:17 a.m.
MrAptronym says... #44
I think Liliana of the Dark Realms ultimate is alright. Having a mana sink isn't much of an issue in any deck that she would be played in. If she goes off a black deck can do anything they want with mana as no exception. You do need to build it in a bit, but not the same way Ajani Goldmane or Vraska the Unseen need to be built around. It doesn't help Ajani's case that lifegain is not very good, or that white isn't very good at evasion or trample. (Flying is your best bet?) Similarly Vraska's Tokens really need the help of unblockable, a blue specialty. Intimidate can do okay though. I think Vraska's is generally better, though she is no prize as a whole.
Koth of the Hammer ultimate basically wins games. It is excellent in any mono-red. Getting to burn your opponent, and more importantly their creatures, puts you in an unstoppable position. Anything your opponent puts on the field is a few taps from death, no cards required. Running out of cards, and thus momentum, is one of red's biggest weaknesses. It also gets around protection.
Chandra, Pyromaster is a good contender as well. The Chandras all seem a bit awful, don't they? Its unreliable, but it could well win you games. The bigger issue with it is that it doesn't have a deck archetype it fits well into. Most red decks seem to try and cast quick spells and don't have too many big finishers like Chandra wants. I just have never seen her ultimate impress me in a game.
March 18, 2014 6:38 a.m.
@Alizer313 and sylvannos ~ I like Tezzeret the Seeker simply because his ult with a Mycosynth Lattice in play can just win.
March 18, 2014 7:25 a.m.
Chandra, Pyromaster isn't bad. Being able to have 3 Lightning Strike is a potential. That's going to do 9 direct damage to the opponents face which is pretty massive.
March 18, 2014 10:04 a.m.
Imagine if you're playing a dedicated burn deck and you get 3x Browbeat . You're either going to win then and there.... or next turn.
March 18, 2014 10:08 a.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #48
Can someone please read my comment on page 1. It was so good
March 18, 2014 12:29 p.m.
megawurmple says... #49
AnagonLordofSnakes It wasn't that good. Please stop attention seeking.
Anyway, my vote goes to Ral Zarek . It's too reliant on luck for it to be any good.
March 18, 2014 3:42 p.m.
I agree with TitansFTW. Luck involved is a buzz kill. If you played well enough to protect your walker to get to its ult there should be a gauranteed reward. Not just an "if the fates grant it" type of thing.
sylvannos says... #2
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is just...awful.
March 17, 2014 9:41 a.m.