How long do you have to counterspell?
General forum
Posted on March 18, 2022, 10:11 p.m. by Puzzle_Master12
I and some friends have been arguing about this, but they think you only have like 5 seconds to respond to something they play, while I think you have as much time until you decide to do or not do something. Who's correct in this situation?
If you might have a response to something, it's 100% a valid option to give some sort of sign you're thinking about responding, take the time you need to come to a decision, and choose to pass priority. Now, after their spell or effect resolves, it's too late to respond to it. But before then you DO receive priority and the game doesn't proceed until you respond or pass.
Also you shouldn't just blitz through game actions or phases of the turn without giving your opponent a chance to respond between them.
March 18, 2022 11:58 p.m.
SpammyV 99% of the time, I would agree with you completely. The last 1%, though, you hit that fine person who holds the game hostage for minutes at a time, "thinking" and occasionally flicking the cards in their hand. In a tournament match, that's at minimum a Slow Play Warning. In casual, it's pointlessly wasting everyone's time. We're here to play Magic, not concede to a player who doesn't have a basic plan. (I'm very slightly exaggerating personal experience: "If you stop playing, that means I won. And you can't force me to pass priority." I'm pretty sure they were just stalling and hoping we would give up.)
And I do completely agree with not blazing through your turn, not giving opponents any chance to do something. That's cheap, and also against the rules.
March 19, 2022 12:26 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #6
A judge at a sanctioned event could theoretically step in and tell you to make a decision if you are taking an unreasonably long time to decide, but there is no rule to say a time limit is enacted. The judges decision is to keep the game progressing, and nothing more.
But yes, if they cast a spell you are unsure of wanting to resolve or not, take your time and weigh your options. If they get pissy, that's their problem.
March 19, 2022 3:45 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
legendofa [audible card thwiping noises intensifies]
God I hate that. It's so insanely rude. Like I get it, you're bored and want something to do with your hands to pass the time. Whatever, fuggin text your mate or something.
What I hate about it is it shows an incredible level of impatience. You know what's in your hand so don't give me the excuse of you're just "seeing options". You're not even looking at them.
And no, thwiping them a dozen times and fanning them out for 1.5 seconds only to thwip them another six times only to fan them back out three times in a row won't magically make new cards appear.
It just shows that you're not invested in the GAME, you just want to be a bully and take over the table.
- BUT I HAVE ADD / ADHD AND I NEE-
No, you don't. I guarantee you don't. You just don't like being told to wait.
March 19, 2022 3:51 a.m.
wallisface says... #8
I would say the following all needs to happen (the following applies to any response, not just counterspell):
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firstly, you need to make it apparent to your opponent(s) that you’re thinking about responding, and so, holding priority.
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At this point, it’s clear that you’re trying to work out the board state and the best play available. And with that, the time to complete that response will depend vastly based on past activity and/or intention. In a competitive scene, if someone’s clearly slowplaying, or holding-priority when there’s obviously nothing they can do, it’s expected that a judge should be called in to adjudicate. If they’ve generally been playing fast, I think it’s pretty fair to give someone a minute or so in a pivotal/crucial turn. In a casual environment, this is something to discuss separately as part of a social contract - if someone’s being a d*ck, then work towards resolving it, in a civil manner. Most people aren’t trying to play slow (and if they are, work towards stopping shitty behaviour).
But be aware, magic can be a complicated game and some people just need more time to get their brain-cogs rotating… so i’d suggest that unless someone’s clearly abusing a game-clock, to not worry too much about it.
March 19, 2022 6:18 a.m.
If its not malicious, give them all the time they want. You have to anyways especially in a casual setting. I am not telling my 12 year old nephew "You get ten more seconds and then my Emrakul resolves!"
In casual if its malicious and frequent then maybe its time for a house rule or something the playgroup votes on. Like you get 1 minute, after that gameplay continues. Or, by the time i come back from the restroom if you havent made a decision, play will continue. Or if you don't respond in 10 seconds, im calling your wife/husband/SO and letting them know you arent really working late at the office!
March 19, 2022 11:40 a.m.
My own 2 cents here....
I personally hate it when I'm not even playing blue and people think their spell resolves, their ETB effect goes un-responded to like no, that's not how it works. There is priority and people often forget that. They assume that if I don't respond in 3 seconds then it resolves. I shouldn't have to give you information that I MIGHT have a response, not giving you free information. You should say you pass priority and then allow some time for the player to respond.
Of course the debate in question is how much time. I think 5-7 seconds that a user above mentioned is fine. But some people just wanna speed through it. I get it, I hate it when people take a long ass time. I try to speed through my turn as well (while passing priority, asking for responses, to ensure that others don't deal with what I had to deal with). That's all
March 20, 2022 7:11 p.m.
wallisface says... #12
Profet93 there are lots of ways to ensure you get time to respond to something without making it obvious to your opponent. The easiest approach is to pick up and read the card they played - it’s not often someone would be so rude as to keep resolving their stuff when you’re apparently trying to understand its effects. And that should provide plenty of time to decide whether to use that Mana Tithe or not.
^ obviously the above no longer works after game 1, or when your opponent casts their 3rd copy of a card, but by this stage they should already be aware your deck has interaction, as you’ve likely played something interactive by this stage
March 20, 2022 8 p.m.
You mention many ways aside from the one you mentioned. Can you please elaborate on other ways? I would find that very beneficial. Depending on people who come to the LGS, some can be rude and do what you described. They would say "you should have said something" --> not realizing that if someone is reading a card then they need to understand it before they can know what/if they want to respond.
March 20, 2022 8:54 p.m.
wallisface says... #14
Profet93 other options include:
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actively holding priority (i.e announce something like “hold on”, “thinking” etc) when something is cast, regardless of whether you have interaction available. After a few iterations of this, opponents should naturally learn to wait for you to approve resolution.
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similar to above, but instead just telling your opponent “wait up, it hasn’t resolved yet” anytime they try resolving something without verifying that it has actually resolved. Again, after someone’s called out on this a few times, they should naturally learn to wait for resolution
^ the above 2 pointers may seem annoying at first, but they’ll quickly help to ensure both players play a cleaner and healthier game.
On top of this, regardless of approach, its always worth making sure your opponent lets any of your own spells resolve, when you cast em. This will help passively enforce how the game should be running (and you’ll be surprised how quickly people naturally fall-in-line when timings like this are being enforced).
Generally i’ve only had issues with 1-2 people trying to resolve stuff early, but they’ve both quickly realised not to rush things, and to respect the priority-rules of the game. In general, you just need to enforce to your opponent that they need a response from you before continuing with spell resolution.
Note also, this all comes from me playing competitive 1-v-1, where its a lot harder to ignore someone. In a group/casual setting, something like a social contract might need to be enforced.
March 20, 2022 9:49 p.m. Edited.
You make excellent points. I'm in agreement with all of them. Sadly, some opponents still complain whenever I tried either of the above 2 you mentioned. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something and it's them being salty that their spell didn't resolve/etb effect removed rather than me just unsure of how it all is supposed to play out. Thank you for taking the time to write the response, it was helpful :)
March 20, 2022 10:03 p.m.
When I got back into playing Magic I forgot that that was one of my favorite things to do is flipping the cars back and forth in my hand. It's a fantastic feeling it's got a good sound oh, it just feels right
March 22, 2022 8:12 p.m.
I from here on out dedicate every single card fwip from here on out to you!
March 22, 2022 8:13 p.m.
There's no time limit. Sometimes it may even take a little long depending on how critical the decision may be.
However, you ARE right as in: they cannot proceed while you don't let it resolve. MTGO is the perfect example for this. In there the player may lose to inactivity, but there's no time limit for how long something stays in the stack.
Granted, don't use it just to annoy people. In the vast majority of cases both players will have a feeling of what's going on and how big the decision is. So they'll usually respect it if you are taking long because you need to and they'll usually also know if you are taking long unnecessarily.
While this technically is in your favor in the absence of a judge, don't abuse it. Also, in the case that you are, indeed, new to the game and don't have a general feeling of what's important to counter or not, then I think they should cooperate in helping you grasp that feeling until you are faster at making these decisions.
legendofa says... #2
There's no defined time that I know of, but if people are starting to complain, it's probably too long. The tournament rules for slow play seems to leave it to the judge's discretion. Personally, I would say if you haven't shown any signs of activity in 5-7 seconds, I would call a judge or urge you to make a decision. At twenty seconds in a casual match, you lose your action. If a decision whether or not to counter a spell or choose who to attack takes that long, you're probably overthinking it.
At minimum, go through the actions of tapping lands and talking to yourself. Show the people around you that you're considering alternatives.
March 18, 2022 10:39 p.m.