Regenerate vs. protection vs. ....
Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 6, 2019, 4:13 a.m. by Halbrechtt
I am playing around with a casual (60-card constructed) GW Lure deck (using creatures with the Lure ability already stapled onto them), and I'm trying to decide the best route to take to protect my Lures when they're attacking into a sea of baddies. The tools that come to mind are:
- Regeneration (e.g. Yavimaya Hollow )
- Protection after blockers are declared (e.g. Spare from Evil )
- Selective fogs (e.g. Dolmen Gate )
- Indestructible (e.g. Shield of the Oversoul )
What are the pros and cons for each of these? I only have so many slots in the deck for protection, so I'm wanting to choose the best type.
I'm also trying to decide whether I should go with one-off instants like Faith's Shield (tend to be cheap mana-wise and the opponent doesn't see it coming) or permanent / repeatable effects from Auras like Shielded by Faith (are more fragile against removal), enchantments like Asceticism (tend to be expensive mana-wise), or lands like Maze of Ith (takes a land drop and interferes with color fixing). All repeatable effects also have the downside of being known to your opponent.
Let me know your thoughts!
P.S. No equipment, for flavor reasons.
Oh Regenerate ... the mechanic that was supposed to be evergreen but created way too much confusion and therefore done away with... its really effective though and typically is repeatable but I think is outclassed by indestructible.
Fog is probably the worst choice because its limited to combat damage and the creature will still die to basically all removal.
Indestructibility makes for a much tougher/creature to be killed/dealt with with essentially only being able to die via being forced to be sacrificed from somthing like Smallpox or exiled from somthing like Path to Exile or wither/-1/-1 effects like Mutilate .
Protection from somthing like Progenitus is incredible for a lot of things especially when it comes to removal/evasion... but if you are looking to attack and the opponent cant block you...it may not be what you want...but after blockers are declared and instant speed protection... eh if you can pull it off go for it.
November 6, 2019 8:29 a.m. Edited.
Halbrechtt says... #4
Thank you all for your responses!
TypicalTimmy — I was unclear about format; I apologize. I've updated the original post to specify 60-card constructed. These decks I'm designing are for my family, who are all just learning. At some point I'd like to convert them into EDH decks, but I don't want to overwhelm them with the inherent complexity of EDH just yet!
I agree with you about blocking. I'd prefer something that works not only when they're attacking, but if I'm on the defense as well. That said, Protection does have the downside of requiring instant speed, due to how Protection interacts with "all creatures able to block do so". It also doesn't work as well against multicolored decks if it's Pro [color], whereas it doesn't protect against non-creature threats in the case of Spare from Evil . But otherwise, it's probably the strongest, because it grants effective Hexproof and Unbockable in addition to damage prevention.
I agree about Regenerate, too. I was leaning away from it due to having to pay each time.
Demarge — I would agree with you in an EDH game, where you'll have fewer combats but bigger swingy ones. But if my son sits down with me one-on-one with a basic 60-card deck, I'd want this deck to be able to stay viable through multiple combats. One way that'll happen is by having a Lure and a couple other creatures, and slowly chipping away at the opponent's life total. But if the Lure dies in the first combat, that strategy won't work. I could include a critical mass of Lures to ensure there's always one in hand to replace one that died.... but that would take just as many, if not more, slots as adding in protection.
And if the whole family plays a multiplayer game, you don't want your Lures dying, because you actually want to slowly accrue them until you have one per opponent.
Icbrgr — Seems we're all in agreement that Regenerate is not the best choice!
Re: Fog effects, what about ones that don't specify combat damage? Examples: Djeru's Resolve , Enshrouding Mist , and Shielded Passage for Instants; and Heart of Light and Inviolability for Auras.
November 6, 2019 1:06 p.m.
in terms of fog effects like you said its closer to Indestructibility being safe from Lightning Bolt or pingers like Grim Lavamancer but can still get hit by Doom Blade with the having the additional weakness of "damage cant be prevented" effect from Skullcrack or Leyline of Punishment and such.
I think its a matter of preference for whatever homebrewed scenarios your decks will face... sometimes intentional weakness/limitations are beneficial as a teaching tool... but for overall most resilience id go with either indestructible or instant speed protection.
November 6, 2019 1:33 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #6
I know it hasn't been asked in the starting post and it might be too expensive, but Vigor seems like a great option for your purposes.
November 6, 2019 3:22 p.m.
my logic was set for 60 card multiplayer gameplay, quite awhile ago I built A big pile of green to play against the casual meta I was in and show them how strong a deck I could build at $15 price range (still so annoyed Triumph of the Hordes pushed the price so high over the years). It is fun, though 1v1 it's land destruction capabilities often made it a little unfair (as it was facing casual decks running 20 lands in an 87 card deck, it was also the lesson on proper land counts).
Honestly you probably could have built the decklists then asked for help balancing them for introductory gameplay to mtg, rather than asking questions to beef up a deck. Now if you already have been playing with your family with these decks and the question was aimed to help out the weaker decklist, I'd have to stick to my advice on thinking about using lures differently, like to get a big attack into a stalled board or making an opponent block something massive that would just devour their board.
Now lure strategies I'll admit I'd never touch for commander, if the board isn't infinite I hate going wide into a board wipe.
November 6, 2019 8:54 p.m.
Halbrechtt says... #8
Icbrgr — Alright, I think you've convinced me! Damage prevention can't protect a creature from anything that Indestructible can't also protect from. (Except for Infect/Wither, because that damage isn't actually prevented, so the -1/-1 counters are still placed on the Indestructible creature.) Similarly, Indestructible is essentially an always-on Regeneration shield that you don't have to pay each time for.
Protection does have the added benefits of faux-Hexproof and Unblockability, but I can't give a Lure permanent protection like I can with Indestructible, relying instead on instants. That said, I think having a combo of both Indestructible and Protection in the deck will cover multiple situations.
seshiro_of_the_orochi — I've been considering Vigor for another deck, but totally forgot about it for this one! Thank you for the suggestion. I think I might try it as a 1-of.
Demarge — I'll try to provide a decklist at some point. As to the status of the decks, we already have some decks we play with, while this deck I'm currently working on would be a new addition. So I'm not yet sure if this will be one of the weaker decklists or not.
I'll admit that I've never tried a strategy like this before, so I will definitely consider your advice about implementing it differently. It may also just come down to a difference in playstyle between you and me, and what sort of decks / strategies we'd prefer. For instance, I actually like the go-wide strategy, even in Commander's boardwipe-rich environment! :)
Demarge says... #2
honestly lures are best used when the game is going to end at that point (usually when Overrun is cast) and so the Taunting Elf doesn't need to really live, just keep blockers busy.
Not to say that I haven't enjoyed miracle Revenge of the Hunted onto an Engulfing Slagwurm or Precursor Golem before (still events that end the game), but yeah protection isn't really my thought on something to do with a lure creature.
November 6, 2019 7:02 a.m.