Opinions of my personal starter decks?
Deck Help forum
Posted on July 28, 2016, 11:19 p.m. by Crayfish
I've always wanted to make some simple 40-card beginner decks to teach people how to play, and with the combination of me moving to a new school district and my girlfriend saying she is willing to learn, I have finally built them. I would like your opinions on them, and if they seem easy enough for a newer player to understand. (As a note, I tried to include a wide cast of keywords to emphasize the diversity of the game.)
Each deck has 17 lands and one rare, which the deck is themed around
Harness the Storm Burn/Aggro Show
Unbreathing Horde-Zombies Show
Hero of Leina Tower-Pump and Smash Show
Captain of the Watch-Soldiers Show
Chief Engineer-Artifacts Show
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
It's a great start, but if I were a brand new player, seeing so many abilities/keywords would overwhelm and ultimately confuse me.
I would suggest making them more simple, keeping to the basics of "this is an instant that does this". Maybe basic abilities like Trample. But more complex than that would be unadvised.
Then when they get the hang of the game, start switching out the simpler cards with the ones in these decks, or with whatever, to gradually make it more diverse.
You don't have to make whole new deck lists, just make it less of a singleton deck list for the beginning so they're not overwhelmed by said diversity.
July 28, 2016 11:31 p.m.
I agree with Raging_squiggle. I built a "deck" that I cna use to play magic with my 5 year old son (kinder magic). i found it best to stick with mostly evergreen abilities or cards which have very simple text. Also avoid abilities that depend on some state or action since new users are just learning that these exist, and asking them to know how to play around them is a bit of a stretch. Also you may want to stick with some more "traditional" spells so that once they become more astute of a magic player, they will think about the same kind of spells as the rest of us: stuff like Lightning bolt, craw wurm, giant growth, gravedigger, llanowar elves, terror (or doom blade). I see some of those above, but they should be the most of these decks, with maybe a sprinkling of "new blood" as it were.hope this helps!
July 29, 2016 12:59 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
There are an awful lot of singleton and 2-of instants and sorceries in that Harness the Storm deck. I realize this is 40-card instead of 60 but I would make all of the instants and sorceries 3-of if you are trying to accentuate the ability of that card.
In the green deck I see no reason to include a Monstrous Growth instead of a third Titanic Growth. If you want to teach people about strictly worse versions of cards show it to them, don't make them play with it.
Thought Prison seems a little powerful against mono-colored decks with no artifact removal. It is also something that really isn't in flavor for blue. I would personally go more of a Ensoul Artifact route with Darksteel Citadel and Ornithopter.
I don't think that any of the decks are too complicated as long as you are helping people to learn with them and not playing "gotcha" when they miss a trigger or ability. As long as you get them playing out their cards there is time to learn strategy and synergy as they go.
July 29, 2016 7:24 a.m.
Putting a couple of the same cards in each deck also lets new players learn them faster.
You know, Wizards actually makes decks for beginners. They are called Sample decks. You might be able to grab some ideas from theirs.
July 29, 2016 10 a.m.
chaoswalker says... #7
Heroic is definitely not a beginner concept. Targeting and the stack are hard to grasp at first, and heavy instant interaction can be very confusing very quickly.
I would emphasize flying and reach wherever possible. It is a very easy to understand mechanic because it make sense and mixes up the basic combat only just slightly. I believe every color but black has easy access to one of the two. Maybe even throw in some creatures who can only be blocked by fliers.
Avoid tokens and counters. They are unnecessary extra mechanics to deal with early on. They aren't overly complicated, but they aren't really teaching the player very much either.
If you can, keep triggered effects to the higher cost cards. It makes them feel stronger, and lets the player ignore complex effects until later in the game.
Make sure the red deck includes haste, preferably on the higher cost creatures so the player can learn summoning sickness, and then can actually understand the value of haste when they are in 3 or more turns.
First strike and death touch are also very simple mechanics that mix up combat, but again you should keep them on the higher cost creatures so that players can understand regular combat flow first.
Oh boy, that blue deck. You made some kind of a not-tron tron deck. Blue's primary mechanic isn't artifact affinity, it is the counter spell. Make sure players are introduced to the concept early on by including light control elements with easy draw power. Things like unsummon and cancel would work very well.
July 29, 2016 3:06 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #8
An additional suggestion:
While you do have instants in the decks, tell them they can only cast them at sorcery speed, or during their own turn, that way they can gradually learn and become acquainted with priority and the stack. Then as they get better, start introducing said concepts.
July 29, 2016 4:05 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
I don't advocate ever teaching anyone wrong or not teaching concepts because they might be too hard. Timing and priority is the number one thing that people are confused about and I feel it is because they were either not taught the concepts or taught them wrong. Within a week of teaching me the game my buddy was showing me a "janky casual deck" that he built that revolved around Amulet of Vigor and Ravnica Karoos. 18 months later he changed out 6 cards, added a sideboard, and he and I were both playing TitanBloom.
If you know anything about that deck you will know that the basis of the deck is one of the more complex stack interactions. If you don't know the deck the major interaction is making 6 mana off of 3 land drops, a single Gruul Turf and Amulet of Vigor. Within 7 days of learning to play I was expected to understand how this combo works. Because of the entire game in all of it's complexity being explained to me as stuff came up with nothing dumbed down, I became extremely knowledgeable of the rules.
Teaching people wrongly and shielding people from simple mechanics like heroic are not the answer in my opinion. Let them discover the complexity of the game organically and just try to keep your own plays on par with theirs. I find that, more often than not, when faced with a problem people will rise to face it if it does not seem insurmountable.
Also remember that your role for at least the first 50 hours or so of game time is that of teacher, not opponent. You need to remind people of their triggers and the relevant combat abilities on your creatures. You do not let them "make their own mistakes", you help them with your knowledge. After that point you are also responsible for teaching them any new mechanic that they have not seen for at least three games.
Epochalyptik says... #2
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum(auto-generated comment)
July 28, 2016 11:27 p.m.