Lose Condition Becomes Win Condition, Just Too Slow...
Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 11, 2020, 1:57 p.m. by bjgivesbj
Hello viewers. Today I have created a silly combo deck that aims to swap control of Demonic Pact on endstep just before it's lose condition using an instant called Sudden Substitution. While the user waits for the combo pieces to arrive, he/she draws cards and creates positive tempo against agressive creature decks with cards like Unsummon and Pongify. However, I still feel like these answers are insufficient. Could you help me?
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Against aggressive decks with powerful synergy such as tribal humans or tribal knights, should I be playing more removal and bounce? If so, what are some good cards I can acquire for cheap ($1.00 or less)?
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Are there any other lose-con cards in other colors that I should splash in the deck?
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Do you want to build a snowman?
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How would you feel if you played this deck against your friends? Would you be confident playing against this deck while using your favorite deck?
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Have you seen other decks with a similar gimmick? If so, I'd like to learn from their key mechanics.
Flooremoji says... #3
Immortal Coil is the item I see most donated in these types of decks, but I have yet to see a good donate deck since Trix (which arguably had enough powerful cards to make any combo good).
More removal would be better than bounce against agressive creature decks.
December 11, 2020 4:01 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #4
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Against aggro decks play sweepers Anger of the Gods/Volcanic Fallout/Pyroclasm and spot removal like Fatal Push and Lightning Bolt
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There are but you should stick to just running pact and a bunch of interaction. Lich cards typically are what you should be looking for but it's very hard to assemble the 7+ mana to play and donate on the turn they hit the field.
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No.
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I mean my favorite deck is lantern control and it would probably just be two ships passing in the night. In it's current form I don't think I'd lose very often to it.
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Blim and Zedru EDH are the only things I can think of but they're super fringe and I don't think many people enjoy playing the commanders due to the power creep.
December 11, 2020 8:21 p.m.
Hello, I like the idea of the deck but sadly your combo does not work.
Sudden Substitution exchanges control of a non-creature spell and a creature. Your enchantment is a permanent while in play and not considered either a creature or a non-creature spell.
December 11, 2020 11:45 p.m.
Master_Keeby says... #6
MagicMarc non-creature spell means any spell that isn't a creature, not any spell that isn't a permanent. As for the poster's question, lots of EDH decks hinge on a similar giving-opponents-bad-cards theme, so I would highly recommend checking out the EDHrec page for Zedruu the Greatherarted (https://edhrec.com/commanders/zedruu-the-greathearted) and the one for Blim, Comedic Genius, (https://edhrec.com/commanders/blim-comedic-genius) as those have a lot of great cards to consider for the deck. Strategy-wise, I would recommend approaching the deck not solely focusing on killing your opponent by giving them Nine Lives-esque effects, but instead on a more stax-esque playstyle of using cards like Steel Golem and Pyromancer's Swath in order to disrupt your opponent as much as possible.
December 12, 2020 1:22 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Master_Keeby "Spell" means an object on the stack. A TYPE spell is on the stack, TYPE or TYPE permanent are on the battlefield, and TYPE card is used in all other zones.
December 12, 2020 2:05 a.m.
Gidgetimer is correct. Any card that is not land is considered a spell only while it is on the stack. When it resolves, any spell that remains on the battlefield instead of being put directly in another zone, is considered a permanent in play and not a spell. In any other zone and while not on the stack it is a card.
The only way that Sudden Substitution would work on Demonic Pact the way that the OP would like is if they cast Sudden Substitution on Demonic Pact while it was on the stack and traded it before it resolved with one of their opponent's creatures. Then the OP wouldnt get any of the benefits but their opponent would still lose the game in 4 turns.
To the OP: Another way that would work is by using Puca's Mischief in the deck to switch control of Demonic Pact in the 2nd to last upkeep phase. Stack the triggers so that it's given away after you get the last good benefit. The only condition is that they would have to have a permanent in play with the same CMC as the pact or lower but it does work.
It also creates more opportunities to make trades that are bad for your opponent.
December 12, 2020 2:21 p.m.
wallisface says... #9
Requiring 2 cards to be in hand and 8 mana seems unreasonable. I suggest you get the card into play and then in a later turn give it to an opponent. Sudden Substitution isn’t the card you want cause its just not practical at all.
The card you want is Donate
December 12, 2020 3:31 p.m.
Awesome! thanks for the clarification on Spell vs Permanent! In that case, Puca's Mischief would make the most sense on a budget, and Donate when I get the funds :) On that note, I should add some more permanents to this deck of various CMCs that would be bad trades.
Tropical_December says... #2
As far as decks with similar gimmicks, there used to be a deck that would use Illusions of Grandeur to gain 20 life and utilized Donate to give an opponent a card that they had to pay an ever increasing oppressive tax, lest lose 20 life. As far as cards liken to your lose-con the aforementioned Illusions of Grandeur does a similar job, however, it is a relatively pricy card. A newcomer to the Magic cardpool is Nine Lives, this card may be too slow, requiring a donation affect and also requiring a way to get rid of a hexproof enchantment.
Oh and I just remembered there was a pretty recent deck that made use of Hive Mind in conjunction with Slaughter Pact or any of the other pacts(there is one for each color), simply cast the Hive Mind, cast a Pact, pass the turn and win.
Doom Blade, and Eliminate are great for killing aggressive beasts.
December 11, 2020 2:42 p.m.