Infinite combos though sac'ing
Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 11, 2016, 6:32 p.m. by McKz
Eyyo, so im looking for ways in mardu to make Altar of Dementia, Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar go infinite though sacrificing Kokusho, the Evening Star and Yosei, the Morning Star. So far i'm thinking Corpse Dance, so i can go infinite at instant speed with Ashnod's Altar(although this only wins the game with Kokusho, the Evening Star). thank you for the help if you make any suggestions.
Use Genesis Chamber and Nim Deathmantle instead of Corpse Dance. This only works with Ashnod's Altar.
If you use Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Genesis Chamber you can go infinite with Corpse Dance using both Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar.
October 11, 2016 7:34 p.m.
im more or less looking at making infinte mana so i can pay for reanimation costs and casting costs to abuse the two dragons, im not seeing how any of these help me go infinite like that. (it takes me some time to realize how these will work)
October 11, 2016 7:43 p.m.
You have on the battlefield: Genesis Chamber, Nim Deathmantle, and Ashnod's Altar.
For either dragon; say Kokusho, the Evening Star enters the battlefield. Genesis Chamber triggers giving you a 1/1 token.
You then use Ashnod's Altar to sacrifice the 1/1 token and Kokusho, the Evening Star. The double sacrifice gives you 4 colorless mana. Kokusho, the Evening Star's death triggers Nim Deathmantle's "dies" trigger. You use the 4 colorless mana pull back Kokusho, the Evening Star back onto the battlefield.
Once you pull back Kokusho, the Evening Star onto the battlefield Genesis Chamber will activate again producing another 1/1 token. This process goes infinite, because you can double sac and pull Kokusho, the Evening Star back with the colorless mana you've produced every time.
October 11, 2016 7:56 p.m.
thanks for the explanation, is their any ways i can try to make the other two sac outlets go infinite? because i dont want to be dependent on just the one outlet
October 11, 2016 8:02 p.m.
@McKz, Yes, but you will need Mikaeus, the Unhallowed as well as Genesis Chamber. This one works for either Nim Deathmantle or Corpse Dance. (Do note that Altar of Dementia will not be able to work by itself. You will need another Altar or both in most cases.)
Basically repeat the same scenario I gave you, but this time have Mikaeus, the Unhallowed on the battlefield as well.
Once you sacrifice your dragon, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's "Other non-human creatures you control... have undying." trigger will resolve bringing back Kokusho, the Evening Star without needing to use Nim Deathmantle. Do note Kokusho, the Evening Star will still trigger giving you a 1/1 token and Kokusho, the Evening Star will have a +1/+1 counter on him. Do note so long as Kokusho, the Evening Star has a +1/+1 counter on him Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's ability will not bring him back. If you sacrifice him again and use Nim Deathmantle however, Nim Deathmantle will bring Kokusho, the Evening Star back giving you another 1/1 token, but more importantly he won't have the +1/+1 counter on him by doing this. This means you can loop between Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's effect and Nim Deathmantle's effect back and forth.
(Undying is a keyword that states if this creature has this ability, if it dies or enters the battlefield from the graveyard and it did NOT have a +1/+1 counter on it, return it to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.)
Basically this gives you a loop where Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Nim Deathmantle take turns alternating between reanimating Kokusho, the Evening Star. Each reanimation gives you a 1/1 token. One for Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's reanimation. One for Nim Deathmantle's reanimation. Most importantly Nim Deathmantle is the only reanimation card that requires mana to be paid to return Kokusho, the Evening Star. That means you will get at least 2 1/1 tokens before each Nim Deathmantle trigger. So you sac Kokusho, the Evening Star twice, and sac 2 1/1's which gives you 4 sacrifice triggers among your Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar. So you can produce 8 colorless mana with Ashnod's Altar alone, or 4 mana of any color with Phyrexian Altar alone, or a combination of the two if you have both depending on how many times either altar sacrifices something in this loop process.
You could also use Corpse Dance instead of Nim Deathmantle here, but ONLY if you have Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Genesis Chamber, Ashnod's Altar, and Phyrexian Altar all on the battlefield. Since you need 5 mana for Corpse Dance's cost and buyback (4 colorless and 1 black mana presuming you always want to buyback the card each time.) This will require 2 Ashnod's Altar sacrifices and 1 Phyrexian Altar sacrifices with one extra sacrifice left over for whatever you want it to be, but it requires a minimum of three sacrifices between those two altars if you do not take the Nim Deathmantle route and three or more sacrifices per loop can only be obtained by Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Genesis Chamber together. (Ashnod's Altar can only produce colorless and can't pay Corpse Dance alone since it requires black mana. Phyrexian Altar can't pay Corpse Dance's cost, because it can only produce 4 mana off of 4 sacrifices and you'd need 5 mana to make it infinite.) Also in the Corpse Dance route, you'd practically use Corpse Dance every time you'd normally use the Nim Deathmantle.
I hope that clears things up for you. I might have spelled things wrong, but that explanation has kind of tired me out.
(Also note, you don't have to sacrifice both the 1/1 tokens if you keep sac'ing a creature between Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Nim Deathmantle/Corpse Dance. Usually 2 to 3 sacrifices will provide enough mana to keep the loop going indefinitely, SO if you spare a 1/1 for every cycle you can produce infinite 1/1 creature tokens, and this can be done with any creature, not just Kokusho, the Evening Star.)
October 11, 2016 8:58 p.m.
mazrimtaim says... #8
There is also the option of using Loyal Retainers, Karmic Guide and Reveillark to constantly bring back Kokusho, the Evening Star or Yosei, the Morning Star. This works by saccing one of the dragons. Then sac Loyal Retainers to bring back dragon. Then sac Karmic Guide followed by Reveillark. Reveillark dies which brings back Karmic Guide and Loyal Retainers. You then keep repeating this process till either you lock someone out of the game or kill them.
October 12, 2016 8:55 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
mazrimtaim didn't mention it but you bring Reveillark back with the Karmic Guide ETB. Starting from all 4 creatures on board with a sac outlet you will:
Sac your Legendary Dragon
Sac Loyal Retainers to bring the Dragon back
Sac Karmic Guide so that it is in the graveyard to be returned
Sac Reveillark to return Loyal Retainers and Karmic Guide
Return Reveillark with Karmic Guide and you are back to the initial state.
At this point though, you are in a 5 piece combo and it would be better to just use cards besides your dragons that enable less complicated combos.
Eiti3 says... #2
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + anyway to get rid of counters
Karmic Guide + any card like Minion Reflector
Nim Deathmantle + any card like Genesis Chamber (Only works for Ashnod's Altar)
There's quite a few. Just gotta look for 'em
October 11, 2016 7:27 p.m.