Emergent Ultimatum Vs. Defense of the Heart - Deck Decision
Deck Help forum
Posted on April 16, 2020, 10:35 p.m. by Mortlocke
With of one of my decks The Song of Phyresis, I need help deciding on which card would be a better fit between the two mentioned in the title Defense of the Heart or Emergent Ultimatum. The desire is to have one mid-late game bomb that could easily get 2 Praetors on board - a "Buy 1, get 1 free" deal at the Praetor Supermarket if you will. The two spells have very different restrictions - but a similar effect.
When Defense of the Heart hits the field "early" (between turns 3 and 5) it slows the flow of play for opponents making them hesitant to play creatures (potentially). But the restrictive conditions for the Enchantment to proc (only at upkeep, at least 3 creatures on an opponent's board) gives opponents a chance to delay the conditions being met while they pursue different methods of building up their boardstates. Still beneficial for me, but there is a chance that opponents could find a way to remove the enchantment before it fires off.
Emergent Ultimatum's biggest hurdle is the CMC. 7 in three different colors isn't a simple feat to accomplish. As for which praetor (The Song of Phyresis includes all 4 praetors) an opponent chooses not to let onto the field that's somewhat irrelevant - at the least, two praetors are going to be on the field. Both spells are Sorcery speed, and that does make Emergent all the more vulnerable compared to aforementioned Enchantment. I'd somehow have to have just enough mana to afford a counterspell in addition - (yes, i'm also considering Fierce Guardianship for this deck as well but I can't figure out what to cut - but that's a different tangent.)
I'd appreciate any opinions/thoughts on what card would be the better fit.
triproberts12 says... #3
If the table lets Defense of the Heart sit out for even a turn, they have messed up. Maybe your playgroup doesn't play enough removal, but people have wised up to the fact that enchantments are some of the best cards in EDH. If you were playing 3 of me, you can pretty much be assured that one of us would have a Chaos Warp or Crush Contraband in hand or a tutor to grab it by the mid-game.
April 17, 2020 10:14 a.m.
The upkeep effect of DotH has always just lead to it getting removed in my experience. If someone is going to counter the creatures from the Ultimatum they'd probably just counter the Ultimatum itself. I'd probably vote for the Ultimatum because you should actually get two things most of the time even if you don't always get the best thing.
April 17, 2020 4:19 p.m.
I appreciate all the constructive input you all provided. Thank you!
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LordBlackblade, so I totally impulse bought a judge promo copy of Defense of the Heart. My magpie brain just didn't like the art of the original copy and I plan on trying both spells in the deck just to see how each plays out. Your previous points in favor of Heart swayed me toward trying it out first - there is a much higher likelihood that i'll be able to actually cast it due to it's significantly lower cmc and color requirement. Also, it can tutor for Blightsteel Colossus - which makes my Phyrexian heart pulse with excitement. But, i'm still skeptical on if i'll get Heart to actually trigger. My meta is heavy on interaction and opponents will have at least 1 turn to destroy the card, and worst case scenario (for them) actually prevent the trigger conditions being met for my next upkeep by just killing off their own lower power/toughness creatures by sending them toward a "friendly" opponent willing to block. This is the scenario I foresee playing out most often with this card on the field...and technically isn't a bad thing. My own meta (at least before the CCP Corona virus hit) was awash in Blue counter magic and tons of creature exile/spot removal effects so i'm cautiously optimistic on Heart's overall success rate.
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triproberts12, my playgroup is all about spot removal - but they're also really about counter magic as well. I'm thinking that this could be a good card to distract players from the rest of my boardstate. Infect typically gets a dirty look from opponents so maybe they'll focus on the enchantment rather than my creatures/proliferation effects? I do still plan on trying out Emergent Ultimatum anyway, as it is a "one and done" deal - the only interaction I have to worry about is which big threat the opponent chosen wishes to not deal with. Regardless, I still net a positive here. But it all comes down to that ridiculous CMC. 7 is just going to be hard to come by.
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mn6334, yeah I honestly think that's what is going to happen to Defense of the Heart - even with my deck. But, there is a silver lining here - my opponents are focusing on just one Enchantment for at least 1 turn. During that turn I can focus on putting out other threats. My meta is just filled with counter magic so I guess it wouldn't hurt as much when someone counters my 4 CMC spell as opposed to my 7. I wish Emergent was uncounterable or an Instant. It self exiles so I feel like that little extra boost in flexibility would be fair. Still hoping it'll play out well though.
Again everyone thanks for your input! If you like my deck The Song of Phyresis please don't hesitate to follow it and drop it a +1. I'm trying to make it the Atraxa Infect archetype players can refer to as a guide. So if you have any criticisms or just want to talk Phyrexia don't hesitate to leave a comment. I feel like a janky youtuber after writing that.
April 17, 2020 8:21 p.m.
It depends on what you are running its easy to get off an Ultimatum by turn 5, running Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Nessian Wanderer and Fires of Invention. Of course Destiny Spinner shuts down counter decks hard, and Setessan Champion helps give you momentum.
April 20, 2020 3:55 p.m.
TacticM, from reading you post I can tell you uh...didn't understand that I'm considering each of the previously mentioned spells with my deck The Song of Phyresis in mind. I don't run any of the cards you listed and don't plan to. By the way, you should tag your cards, consider the following example:
[[Nessian Wanderer]]
But I digress, it's not really all that easy to hit 7 mana in three different colors in the context of my previously mentioned deck (but you should check it out and leave a +1 - shameless plug I know - oh and tell me what you think of the custom page layout). Usually when I have access to 7 mana i'd be looking to cast a Praetor to create a lock on the board or try and get some proliferation triggers to gain counters and/or poison counters on opponents. I decided that Defense of the Heart is the best option:
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it could potentially influence my opponents to slow down and deal with it before advancing their boardsates.
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it can come out far earlier than Emergent Ultimatum, as it's CMC is mono green just as far as color restriction and has a fairly similar effect.
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none of the creatures that hit play can be countered unless someone is running some weird Stifle effect (correct me if i'm wrong on that one, but I think that the previously mentioned card would counter Heart's activation.
But yeah, that's what i'm going with. Got any thoughts?
April 21, 2020 9:49 p.m. Edited.
TacticM, oh and one more good thing - I can recur it with Yawgmoth's Will (it's in the deck). Yeah, I think Defense of the Heart is the better choice for my deck The Song of Phyresis (Seriously...check it out. Let me know what you think. Shameless plug over, I swear.)
April 21, 2020 9:54 p.m.
The reason I can deploy Ultimatums turn 7 with my deck is 2 cards. Fires of Invention which takes out the mana combination requirements, and Dryad of the Ilyssian Grove makes all your lands all land types. Dryad of the Ilyssian Grove allows you to deploy 2 lands a turn as well.
April 22, 2020 2:58 a.m.
TacticM, so...I guess you're not going to tag your cards and just make me manually look up each and every one of your additional suggestions. Just a little bit of consideration towards others goes a long way. Especially since I took the time to give you a nice example on how to tag your cards on TappedOut and everything >:(
So, like I said before - the two previously mentioned cards are being considered within the context of a Vorthos Atraxa Infect deck with various Soft Locks (or stax-like) effects on the battlefield and +1/+1 counters.
None of the additional cards you mentioned are going to be considered as i'm looking to incorporate Emergent Ultimatum and/or Defense of the Heart into my deck, The Song of Phyresis. Between the two, I want to find what would be the best fit for the deck as it is.
LordBlackblade says... #2
I'm going to vote for Defense of the Heart for a few reasons:
It's easier to cast at
It's cheaper to cast (4 mana vs 7 mana)
Played properly, it gives your opponents less choice. There are going to be situations where this card comes down and your opponents can't do anything about it. Emergent Ultimatum always gives them a choice to get rid of the biggest threat (regardless of how big all your threats are). As a rule, your opponents will always choose what is best/least worst for them.
It can be reused with any Regrowth type effects, whereas Emergent Ultimatum self-exiles (granted you are not running these effects)
The creatures from Defense of the Heart are not cast, and as such cannot be countered, whereas the creatures from Emergent Ultimatum are cast for free, and vulnerable to counterspells
To me, these upsides far outweigh the downsides in this particular comparison.
April 16, 2020 11:35 p.m. Edited.