Why are the Signets So Beloved in this Format?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 1, 2019, 9:01 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
The Ravnican guild signets seem to be very popular in EDH, so why is that? Is it because they cost only 2 mana to cast and can filter mana into the colors that a player most needs at that time? What does everyone else say about this?
Turns 1 color you don't need into 2 colors that you do need. The color fixing on em are just great.
Most rocks at the 2 mana slot return 1 mana. Signets technically do the same thing but with 2 colors. Only time they dont is turn 1/ turn 2 when you probally spent all your mana casting it.
July 1, 2019 9:15 p.m. Edited.
Tbh they're just two Mana colored rocks, which are rare and useful. It's a lot more important to get a rock out turn two rather than turn three, and they can turn less useful colorless Mana into colored Mana for spells. Which is important since colorfixing is needed in most multicolored decks.
July 1, 2019 9:47 p.m.
They're 2 mana rocks that produce not colourless mana and don't come into play tapped. Seems strong.
Now that they have compelted the talisamn cycle (see Talisman of Progress for example), these are generally a bit more versatile as you can access the mana from them with no external input, however the signets are still very strong and can be used to turn off mana into two relevant colours.
Also, TypicalTimmy: it's like Sol Ring is really good or something and enables degenerate plays...
July 1, 2019 9:49 p.m. Edited.
Chhris honestly my one issue with the lockets/cluestones is that like they're only as good as they remain on the field. Honestly like it's either 6 for one card or 7 for another if they're actually being used as late game card draw, but by the time you actually would wanna sacrifice them it's either you're getting draw from other sources consistently or entirely lost.
But they're still better than the keystones.
July 1, 2019 9:58 p.m.
Me to some children: "Ok kids let me teach you how to play magic. First you drop an Island , then a Mana Vault , then use the Mana from the Vault to cast Sol Ring , then put down a Thought Vessel , a Izzet Signet and a Gruul Signet using the Mana from all your artifacts. Then on your next turn, caste a Simic Signet and another land. Then use 4 Mana to untap Mana Vault . Then on your third turn, put down a third land and use all your Mana to cast Maelstrom Wanderer ."
Child: "That sounds like magical Christmas land and what if an opponent has a Hurkyl's Recall ? And you'll have no cards in hand."
Me: "Shut up Timmy this is why Lassie had to get you out of a well so many times."
July 1, 2019 10:12 p.m.
dbpunk, I thought the line was:
T1 -> Island , Mana Crypt , Simic Signet , Mana Vault
T2 -> Mountain , Maelstrom Wanderer , cascading into Pestermite and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and proceeding to sic Lassie on your opponents
Pfffttt, turn 3...
July 1, 2019 10:19 p.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #9
Talismans are also beautiful. Personally I like the talismans more.
July 1, 2019 10:22 p.m.
It’s not that people like the signets particularly. They just want low cost mana rocks that work good for their colors since there really isn’t a reason to not have them in the deck if you are running multi color stuff.
July 1, 2019 11:03 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #11
Well, competitively they filter and fix mana when you do an infinite mana combo. Just with the very popular untappybois Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter and Paradox Engine though.
July 1, 2019 11:04 p.m.
They come in a lot of the precons so people have them in abundance compared to some of the other rocks
July 2, 2019 4:01 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #13
They're a 2cmc rock that enter untapped and produce 2 different colors of mana. They're just good.
July 3, 2019 4:42 p.m.
dingusdingo says... #14
All kinds of reasons to love these bad boys
- 2 cost mana rock that accelerates and color fixes
- Enters untapped
- Extremely cheap to purchase in real life dollars
- Diversifies land base, protects against MLD that is common in the format
- Allows explosive turn 1 plays when paired with other cards like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt that are staples in competitive EDH decks
The Talismans outclass them by not needing a mana to use it right away, but Signets are still quality stuff! Easiest way to run budget 3 and 4 color decks
July 5, 2019 3:34 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #15
Everyone here has given great praise to the signets, but how do they compared to the filter lands? The lands are much more flexible with their mana production and can be played for free, or does the fact that a player is normally limited to one lands per turn reduce their utility?
July 6, 2019 10:13 p.m.
dingusdingo says... #16
Filters are pretty bomb and shouldn't be discounted, but there are a few things to note
- Filters can only color fix from the colored mana. Signets color fix from any mana
- Filters use a land drop. Signets don't
- Filters don't ramp. Signets do
I'm a fan of the filter lands, but they're way more expensive dollar wise than signets. They shine the best in 3-4 color decks, where you're likely to have one of the mana symbols you need to filter. They aren't as useful in 5 color. Competitive decks usually pass over them due to the high amount of playable rainbow lands, and because they aren't fetchable and don't enable colored mana production on turn 1 without help.
July 7, 2019 12:45 a.m.
I mean filters are great if you're playing two or three colors in edh, but they are a land drop and require some set up to play them both. But there's no discounting the playability of them.
July 7, 2019 12:50 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #18
dingusdingo, what do you mean by "filter lands do not ramp?" When a player plays such a land, they now can generate more mana than what they could before they played that land.
July 7, 2019 8:33 a.m.
DemonDragonJ: that's not how ramp works, that's just not missing land drops. Ramping is generating mana above and beyond just land drops.
And filter lands are not as good as signets. Filter lands by themselves only generate colourless mana and require coloured input for them to be effective. They're not bad but most top end decks will prefer to run lands which are just good fixing by themselves.
That being said I don't think you can just compare land to ramp cards.
July 7, 2019 9:04 a.m. Edited.
dingusdingo says... #20
DemonDragonJ, most people assume you will hit 1 land a turn, so the choice to use a filter would be using it over another land in the spot because of the flexibility and access to color it provides. The choice to use a signet is in addition to the land you play.
For myself personally, I play signets/talismans when I want to hit 4 mana by turn 3. This is usually to pop out a commander in a deck heavily built around the commander, something like Captain Sisay or Prime Speaker Vannifar . If I play a land drop on turns 1 and 2, I can play a talisman/signet and be ready to play a land then my commander on turn 3. If I was using a filter land there, I would be bounded by the 1 land a turn and get my commander on turn 4 instead. This is generally what people mean by ramp, to get ahead of the expected mana if you are playing 1 land a turn.
Free_Iona says... #2
I actually prefer the Lockets eg. Simic Locket . They cost more, but are less "fixing" and more like pure "ramp." plus they are a mana sink late game to draw cards.
July 1, 2019 9:10 p.m.