Why are people calling for Lord Xander to be banned?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 23, 2022, 12:03 p.m. by Azurenere
New to this site, so feel free to tell me if I formatted something wrong.
So Streets is out, and there seems to be a large amount of people wanting Lord Xander, the Collector to be banned almost instantly in EDH. I really don't understand why there is so much controversy over this card. If his final ability halved all permanents instead of non-land, I would maybe get it, but as is I can't see any major reason to ban him over other offenders.
So I'm asking, from people on both sides, why is there so much controversy over this card. Feel free to comment regardless of which side you're on in this debate.
I think Xander needs to prove that he's good before being banned IMO. Personally i think its more about selling product/generating hype at this point but we will see.
April 23, 2022 12:21 p.m.
Don't quote me on this, but I think that there was a foreign version of Xander that got spoiled and had his final ability mistranslated on some sites to be halve all permanents. If that's true, I do understand why people would want it banned if they didn't know the actual text, but even still it seems a bit extreme to ban a card right out of the gate like that.
I would say that Fierce Guardianship was a card that a lot of people thought was controversial when it was spoiled, but I didn't see nearly the call to ban it before it was even released like I've seen with Xander.
It's either a marketing ploy by Wizards to hype it up or people who misunderstand how the card works.
April 23, 2022 12:30 p.m.
griffstick says... #5
A deck built around Lord Xander, the Collector with him as the cmdr still has to spend 7 mana to cast him. He's a big deal and a very strong card, no doubt about it. But when it's in the command zone I think it's weaker then when it's in the 99. Being able to search out and chuck it into the grave and reanimate it and and sac it turn after turn it powerful.
April 23, 2022 12:48 p.m. Edited.
I'm far from an EDH expert, so get your grain of salt ready, but I don't think it's anywhere near bannable. Sure, it's a big pile of removal on a big creature, and it's in good control colors, but it's also MV 7 and has no self-protection (ward, hexproof, regenerate, etc.). It can basically make one person's life miserable for a while, or everybody kind of miserable, but that's it. Xander is a big scary finisher, in the style of Zacama, Primal Calamity or Beledros Witherbloom.
I don't think it's WotC's style to stealth-hype or astroturf a specific card. If there was a mistranslation, that wouldn't help, but I think it's knee-jeek reaction.
April 23, 2022 1:05 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #7
He's got a pile of big, scary effects.
I think people are mostly thinking of him as a mid game via Sneak Attack-style effect or reanimator-style issue and less as a 'fair' card to cast as a commander on turn 7. If I reanimate him turn 4, then Sakashima to copy him, and then clone/copy him again, I can see how that will be oppressive...and the one person being targeted if you only use him once is probably going to feel real bad.
That said, I'm unworried until proven otherwise.
April 23, 2022 2:11 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
I have not seen the discourse on Lord Xander, the Collector and am a hopeless optimist. So take my analysis with a grain of salt.
Lord Xander suffers from doing too much and not enough all at the same time. He sees big and cool and splashy. But at 7 mana without any evasion he is going to turn into "fuck this one guy in particular" and screw one person over so badly that they are basically out of the game without actually being eliminated. It is my opinion that the people calling for the banning realize that Lord Xander is going to lead to unfun play patterns in a casual format and want him banned for that reason.
April 23, 2022 3:08 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #9
7 mana, three colors, no keyword abilities, no protection (although you don't want it, it may seem) and can be countered.
What's the problem? In a 1v1 match, sure he's as bad as Edgar and others. But in a 4v4 match, it'll quickly turn into 3v1 and the game will balance.
April 23, 2022 4:32 p.m.
I don't see it. Since it is target player (not the entire table), it is Captive Audience-esque in that regard... but more recurrable. Either it will be: "better him/her than me" or it becomes archenemy & the game balances out. I'm seeing the same kinds of comments it seems with increasing regularity now. This is a problem with a regulatory body in a casual format that should be governed by the players. Twitch reaction to aggressive abilities on cards have gotten out of control as well... I've seen the same kind of "ban it" "you'll be hated" comments with every other commander now, to me if some of these "you'll be hated" players have such a low threshold for "you'll be hated" they may be playing the wrong game.
April 23, 2022 7:26 p.m.
Azurenere Welcome to the site!
And as to Lord Xander, the Collector I mean, there's obviously no power level issues so it must be a feel bad issue, and I could kinda see that. Each of the abilities are okay on their own, but it does combine three very hated effects, in which I dare say that the sacrifice ability is maybe the least of them. Players can get peeved at discarding, and they can get tilted as they watch their favorite cards get milled, and sacrificing is never fun, so when you put all these on one body, you are kind of lining your deck up to take half of every part of the game away from someone.
I have zero problems with it. It's a card that always gives you the options of what to keep, only affects one player, and is 7. I'd say that it looks more like a semi-lame commander and not broken, but there are definitely ways to break it with sacrificing effects, but still, 7 mana. They've banned Iona, Shield of Emeria as a purely feel bad card, so it's a thing I guess.
April 23, 2022 7:41 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #12
It's like the people who get scared of Archfiend of Depravity or whatever.
It's a game. Take the L and move on.
It sucks when that is the only deck that person has / uses, but financial situations are different for everyone. Like right now I only have one single EDH deck and it's The Ur-Dragon.
People just like to complain. Their problems aren't your problems.
April 23, 2022 7:46 p.m.
rshistorysmuf says... #13
I agree with the Professor, it's overpowered. But like he said if you can get to 7 mana (oh no EDH that's quite easy). It's got blue, you can clone the crap out of it.
There are 'lesser' cards on the banned list because of the synergy with combo pieces make them a nightmare. Look at Emarkul, big scare mv15, but even I can work him out to turn him into yo yo, play the big E, take another turn, attack, bounce the big E and recast, take another turn etc.
Just adding in bruvac and suddenly it is total mill.
April 24, 2022 9:23 a.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #14
Its within a design space casuals don't like; Discard, mill and sacrificing permanents. Additionally, he does something at all points in the game, when he enters, when he attacks and when he leaves - I feels this is one of the best designed commanders we've had in years lol. Granted, he's 7 mana so I likely won't play him but I still think he's neat.
April 25, 2022 6:44 a.m.
Dunno what the thought process of others might be, but to me Xander looks like a card that is fundamentally the opposite of WotC's philosophy for the EDH format being a card that casual playgroups will not enjoy and lengthen games by significant amounts. I can't see a concern from a competitive standpoint to a 7 mana creature that only hits one player with the ETB and will die to Swords a ton without ever doing anything but causing one opponent to discard half their hand. My suspicion is this is similar to the thought process of others, but I honestly don't know, nor do I care about this particular card that much at the moment as I don't have much expectation that it would be truly problematic for the format.
From a competitive perspective I feel like he might be more viable as a reanimation or polymorph effect target than as the actual commander.
April 25, 2022 2:35 p.m. Edited.
Grubbernaut says... #16
As a cEDH-only player, I don't think he's viable at all, even as someone that loves to brew. Too much setup, too much Mana.
April 25, 2022 2:52 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #17
I don't see a world where he even competes with other reanimation targets that just flat out wins the game.
April 25, 2022 10 p.m.
I don't think he competes in the same "game-winning" reanimation target discussion. I do think he is in a 1-in-99 Timmie reanimation target category, he will accrue more punishment beyond reanimation ETB as well... But yea, it is a game already loaded with strong reanimation targets. It is hard to argue based on "7 mana is easy to reach in EDH" kind of a slippery slope there... but objectively it is a relatively high CMC commander with a single-player slapping effect (with recursion possibility). Though this is subjective argument, I honestly have quite a few decks that don't care about 2/3 of his effects, or are even empowered by those effects (in a vacuum without a Bojuka Bog for eg.). If you want my Kardur, Doomscourge deck to sac... go nuts, I wanted an outlet anyway. You want to fill that graveyard for me, go nuts.
April 25, 2022 11:15 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #19
At best, you could Deadeye Navigator him a few times and sink everyone's hands. But honestly that's a lot of mana and there are better ways to do it
April 26, 2022 1:26 a.m.
The real thing that holds back Lord Xander, the Collector is that he doesn't go for the win by himself. You could use another card to abuse his abilities and maybe knock somebody out, but for 7 mana, to be strong, he should be the one getting you to winning.
I mean, I play a 7 mana commander too and I think it's not an unreasonable number for casual, but casting that commander should be when you are getting to an endgame. Late game punishing one player but not in a way that takes them out is okayish, but definitely not broken.
I'm pretty sure people just don't want to discard their cards : ) The more I think about it, the more that seems like the ability that would get the most frowns.
April 26, 2022 7:43 a.m.
GoldenAgeBatman says... #21
As a vampire player I say run him in the 99 and cheat him out with Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord potentially on turn 3.
April 26, 2022 9:40 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #23
It's just a Commander that can only do annoying stuff to others. Not just once, but whenever anything happens with it, there's a huge bummer enclosed for one player at the table. Not bannable, but something to sigh at whenever someone reveals it as their Commander. Like Tergrid, God of Fright Flip, like Hokori, Dust Drinker, nobody who runs this at the head of a deck has fun in mind for the entire table, just annoyance for anyone who isn't them. I don't think that's the way to play a casual format, but I don't need a ban to explicitly tell me that. But they have banned Iona, Shield of Emeria so who knows what the RC will decide on it.
That being said, my prediction is that when you build the deck, and it does the thing a few times, it will get boring for the pilot soon enough that it won't be that much of a problem in the long term. I think the format has self-regulated worse cards than this before and it's more clout than this Commander deserves to be called out for instabanning.
April 26, 2022 10:41 a.m.
The comparison to Tergrid, God of Fright Flip seems spot on. Powerful, yes, but powerful in that way that makes opponents not want to be at the table rather than insta-wins, and it's really just up to play groups whether they want to say yay or nay to things like that.
Grubbernaut says... #2
People see lots of abilities and get scared.
Even with any kind of doubler, it's a hugely mana intensive combo that can still be disrupted. It won't be a big deal.
April 23, 2022 12:16 p.m.