Proxies, yay or nay?
Posted on Aug. 15, 2021, 12:31 a.m. by DrukenReaps
I'm completely cool with proxies for testing. I'm not convinced of permanent proxies though. Like if you proxy a card you own because it is in multiple decks or you don't want to damage it so it stays in a special binder forever, cool. If you proxy cards you don't own and will never buy then I simply ask why buy any cards? Just proxy everything forever at that point and no one buy cards ever again because I could just buy decks of 52 playing cards for like $5 or so instead of MtG cards.
So yeah... That's my thoughts. What do you think of proxies? Good experiences? Bad experiences? Neutral on them?
Given how stupidly expensive the game is, I have no issue with proxies anymore. I use to be strictly against them as it felt like cheating when someone would write a cards information on a basic land and claim to play it.
It felt horrible because I saved all month to build a deck and someone sharpies out a single card worth more than I saved just to win.
But also, there are players who really want to play EDH at their LGS who can barely afford a Precon and then those players at the LGS rail on them for having such "garbage" and "shit".
Similarly there are players who really want something like a Gaea's Cradle but the price is ever increasing beyond their reach. I was able to buy one at $200. I would NEVER pay $1,200 now.
The price gouging is so insane that it becomes a barrier for entry that, frankly, most new players can never step over.
And that's unfair.
So now, I'm fine with proxies. Show me you are making some kind of effort to buy cards but if you want to proxy a few because you don't want to drop $600 on lands, ESPECIALLY LANDS, I say go for it.
August 15, 2021 1:05 a.m.
If people want to play Magic the Gathering, that's good with me. Everybody has their own budget.
August 15, 2021 1:26 a.m.
"If you proxy cards you don't own and will never buy then I simply ask why buy any cards?"
For me, because I prefer the experience of paper cards, but am not down to drop the money necessary for certain cards - especially lands and ramp. I will never play cEDH, I will never (intentionally) play a comparatively overpowered deck for the table, and being able to use expensive cards that make a deck work but would otherwise be inaccessible is just as fun as having the real cards. More than, even, because I rid myself of the guilt that spending hundreds or thousands of extra dollars would've brought on.
To continue with your subsequent points, though: if your playgroup is okay with it, I am 100% fine with people using literally all printed proxies so long as it's otherwise a deck within the acceptable limits of your group. I've played more magic with printed-paper proxies in sleeves than I have with actual cards or actual cardstock proxies.
I understand why proxies (of any kind, cardstock or home-printed on computer paper) would bother people if someone is making a deck to punch above the level the table has set, but if it's to play at the same level, I do not understand why anybody would care one way or the other.
August 15, 2021 2:54 a.m.
I really don't like playing proxies myself. I really want to own the cards I play, by personal preference. I picked up my Gaea's Cradle for €375, because I really hated looking at the basic Forest that I scribbled "Gaea's Cradle" on with a sharpie.
But I do realize how lucky I am with plenty disposable income to spend on this game, and I would never scold or exclude anyone who doesn't choose to spend their money this way. I do have decks that can hold themselves at a competitive table though, so if you're not restricted by budget by playing proxies, I would like to know before playing, so that I can adjust my expectation of how powerful that will make your deck.
Proxies are fine if you explain why you're running them in the rule 0 conversation, it's not fine to hide them and pubstomp everyone with cards that were presumed too powerful for the table. If I did run proxies, I'd at least bring one deck with me that didn't have them, just to accommodate for when my opponents don't like the use of them. Some people still consider them a touchy subject after all.
Only use proxies if they enhance your gameplay experience. Using proxies is a slippery slope into using the most powerful cards because there's no treshold to not run them anymore. The resulting imbalance in power level may ruin gameplay at your playgroup. There's a difference between proxying a single Doubling Season because that's a pretty expensive card that's vital to certain strategies, and opening with a proxy Underground Sea into a proxy Mana Crypt into proxy Intuition, just because you can. As long as you're aware of and able to communicate how you feel about that difference, there's no reason I can't have fun playing with you.
August 15, 2021 3:54 a.m.
Our playgroup rule is; if you own a copy, it's okay. Saves from resleeving/moving cards from deck to deck. Keeps our power levels on an even playing field if we know no ones gonna be dropping a dual turn one.
August 15, 2021 5:04 a.m.
For me if it's over $100 OR a card that badly needs reprinting (which often means the same thing) I'm all for proxies. Call me a snob but I am anti- sharpie on a basic land now it's a Gaeas Cradle, at least put some effort in it, but whatever
August 15, 2021 8:57 a.m.
Yisan I did put some effort in it, I bought the real thing after realizing I did want to keep playing with the card '^^
August 15, 2021 12:51 p.m.
Particularly yay for people that play MTG as a kitchen table hobby once every so many weeks or monthly. I know for me, some of the proxies just save so much time an effort for my monthly Wizard poker. It is so much less time & devotion versus making a list & either ordering singles & potentially dealing with taxes. & then there is life too; things like wife aggro, etc... Really, why does effort even matter, unless you want to compare cardboard weiners? - that being said a certain amount of effort is appreciated, like printing legible cards that are just easily read & don't interrupt the flow of the game... There is something a little cheesy to me even, when it comes to hand-scribbled text on a forest.
August 15, 2021 1:14 p.m.
As someone has previously mentioned. Unless I can trade up, and up, and up, I would like to have a Mishra's Workshop around 2K but there are reprints in Vintage Masters and Master edition IV (haven't seen them), Candelabra of Tawnos - 900 reprinted Vintage masters (have not seen it), Underground Sea 400 reprint, Volcanic Island 400, Plateau 150, Gaea's Cradle around 500.
It's a shame but when you see IHYD playing such uber stuff, you wish why can't I play these in commander. Do we go and buy knock off versions?
August 15, 2021 1:58 p.m.
Just found bootlegs for all dual lands, MW, CoT, GC for less than 70 quid.
August 15, 2021 2:15 p.m.
I personally don't like proxy cards. I don't want them in my deck. The only proxy I'll except is my cmdr. When looking across the table at other players proxy cards I prefer them to be as accurate to the actual card as possible. If not then a super sweet proxy, a really cool proxy that I just have to look at. The thing is, I want to know what the card is accross the table from me is quickly, and without a close look. I want to be able to keep up with the sometimes fast pace of the game without haveing to read the cards over and over again because I forgot what it does. When I see an artwork I know what the card does without reading it 90% of the time. With proxy cards that don't try to look look the original card I struggle at the game.
August 15, 2021 3:07 p.m. Edited.
I try to only proxy cards i am testing or cards i already own that i need multiple copies of for different decks. I always either print exact duplicates on card stock, or get custom proxies done. When i was a newer player i built a Vela the Night-Clad deck, so i had a guy make me proxies for Vela, OG Erebos, and OG Thassa based on my favorite anime at the time (SAO). Haha. They are still some of my favorite proxies I've gotten. I'm not ok with proxying power for no reason to slide in casual decks. If a playgroup decides agead of time to proxy competetive decks just to play and see what it is like, then I'm all for it. Anything to drive interest and enjoyment in your group. I recently put together a deck for me to sit at a cedh table and there are some proxies in it, but i own all of them in other decks except one. I need to pick up a Demonic Consultation when i can, but i wanted to goldfish the deck in paper, so i did the atrocious basic land writing. In all fairness to me, I've never played it against another person. Haha.
August 15, 2021 3:30 p.m.
I’m mostly on ExpozeD’s program, anything that helps people have fun. Having said that, though, I feel like something is sort of lost when you allow yourself access to all cards. It’s sort of like cheat codes in a video game; a little bit of the end-stage of your enjoyment of the game. Allows you to be all and do all. Somehow it doesn’t feel right to go overboard that way. To wrap up, though, folks who use one or two here or there just to round things out it totally fine. I just worry that it’s that last step before they “solve the puzzle” and walk out the door. Probably unfounded....
August 15, 2021 4:45 p.m.
I've spent thousands into my EDH deck. My deck runs OG dual lands, 9 fetchlands, Lion's Eye Diamond, Wheel of Fortune, and I even own masterpiece cards in my deck as well. My opinion, if you can make your deck better with proxies then I encourage you 100% to use proxies. I love my fancy and rare cards, but they mean nothing if I can't enjoy them in a game of inequality. Maybe I like showing off these cards, but that only comes second to playing the game win or lose and to me the game is boring if winning is too easy for me. I want to build my deck to be stronger, not to win games and the difference between that is I can not build a stronger deck if everyone else is using a sub $100 deck. Seriously, I want you to proxy that disgusting infinite combo deck or that solitaire prison-control lockdown deck. Please do so, I won't even complain if you beat me with it. When I'm playing against decks at their best I can make my deck better and that's the real thrill of the game. Please proxy disgusting power decks. Heck I don't even care if you have the money to buy the deck, but you'd rather proxy it instead. I want to fight power no matter what form it comes in. Personally, I hate it when people bemoan things like, "it sure must be nice having a lot of money lying around to buy those cards." If that's how you feel please use proxies. I want to beat you with skill, not money damnit. (Also I want to state I got most of my cards when they were much cheaper and I totally agree newer players lack these opportunities.)
As for myself I do use proxies, but only when the card has yet to come in the mail or the card has been spoiled in an unreleased set and I want to gauge its use, because I'm too impatient to wait. There are only two cards I can't afford that I'd want to put in my deck and I own their convincing Chinese knock-off proxies, but I've never fit them in my deck due to the current negative views towards proxies; those cards being Candelabra of Tawnos and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. I'd only want to run the Candelabra of Tawnos, because it makes a recurable Night's Whisper with Underworld Connections and its not like I would use it for any other busted means. The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale because its just such a good hoser on go-wide decks. I run a healthy amount of boardwipes anyway, but this cards would provide excellent insurance. My deck's power level is already incredibly high though, so allowing proxies would still benefit my opponents more than myself and I really wish that's the way it could be. I hate limiting myself and I don't want others to limit themselves either. My views on that won't change even if I do end up acquiring both the Candelabra of Tawnos and the The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. I just want to play games at my power level.
August 15, 2021 4:47 p.m.
Sanctioned events no but everything else yes. Play the player not the wallet - having a good expensive deck doesn't translate into a player having skill. fun fact a lot of pros don't own the decks they play, they're usually owned by a friend or their sponsor. Also, if someone wants to make it an issue if I have the card(s) I'll just loan them to the player who's using proxies. We're a community first and I'm tired of people acting as if they're above someone cause they can afford some fancy cardboard
August 15, 2021 7:44 p.m.
rshistorysmuf, the IHYD channel plays in an LGS owned by that football player who is always seen on Game Knights. His store specifically specializes in rare cards. Likely, everything you see there is his.
August 15, 2021 7:58 p.m.
RNR_Gaming nailed it here...play the player, not the wallet. There are a ton of other good points made by everyone in this thread, but this one is at the top of the list, and I can speak to it based on experience. I have every card I could pretty much want to build with, but at best I am a mediocre pilot based on the amount of time I have to play in person. I'll let some of my LGS friends pilot my decks and they make them purr better than I ever could. Having played from the very beginning of the game, while things have greatly evolved in Magic since 1993, the first and foremost goal of the game should be to have fun. Rule 0...communicate with your group and play to have fun, whatever that looks like to you.
August 15, 2021 8:02 p.m.
I once played against a guy who was running Elfball and, after tutoring for something, he goes "awe shit, I forgot Birds."
He desleeved a basic Forest, took out a black sharpie and began writing the information on it.
Naturally the table just stopped and went WHAT THE FUCK?? His reply was that it was MORE THAN fair because he was losing a basic Forest from it.
This guy would also purposely place his "exile" pile ON TOP of his library, turned sideways. Then "accidentally" shuffle it together when he had the chance.
Or he would draw more than 1 card each draw step, chuckle and go "oh man, oops. I'll just put this back."
He was the reason that for many years I was strictly against them. He would pull this kind of shit all the time. His worst offenses were printing off card images on printer paper and sleeving them DURING THE GAME going "oh man I thought I had this in here?"
But, I've matured and grow to realize that this guy was just an asshole and a cheater.
I have proxies. A few. I have the $200 Cradle but I also got a $50 proxy off of Etsy with some supremely beautiful artwork and foiling. I also own two proxy playsets of Liliana of the Veil in various lingerie because weebs gonna weeb.
I do not actually own other proxies, and I own the real copy of both Cradle and Liliana. However, I have intentions to make my own proxies so I can play with my $3,000 decks while I slowly buy the cards over time.
I can not justify dropping several grand to play the game, but I also don't want to be forced into sitting it out either while I save.
So I want to play the game and drop $50 or $200 here and there as it slowly builds and comes together.
I believe that's the "right" way to use proxies. But, again, not everyone can spend $200 on a single card, meaning they will likely never own it.
And to me, being forced to sit outside while others have fun because you are not as financially blessed as others has got to be one of the biggest middle fingers WOTC can give us.
August 15, 2021 8:10 p.m.
TypicalTimmy - the moment that guy took the forest out to make a new proxy I would of either asked him to leave or picked up my things and left; I would be more than happy to allow him to do it after that game had ended but Jesus H Christ I have never seen blatant cheating like that in person - closet was someone trying to manipulate prizes with an infinite combo.
August 15, 2021 8:22 p.m.
RNR_Gaming, I'm not sure what's worse. That guy or the one who actually punched me for pointing out the state of his creature.
He was playing Jund and cast a massive Primordial Hydra for like X=6. No haste. He just grinned shittily and passed turn.
I held onto my spells, did a few small things and passed.
His upkeep, it's now a 12/12. He swings.
He scoffs and moves it to his graveyard. Second main phase, he taps some lands and casts Dread Return, putting P.Hydra back into play.
He gives me the biggest, most arrogant grin imaginable. Smug like he just got away with murder in front of the Judge and victims family.
I pause for a brief moment as my little hamster wheel slowly creeks to a stop and ask, "uh, that dies?"
WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO IT DOESNT!?
...you didn't pay into X.
IT'S A 6/6!!
...counters don't move with it to the graveyard. Because you didn't cast it, it's a 0/0 and dies. (I know now it doesn't 'die', it moves to the graveyard via state based actions after the game checks it's toughness being 0.)
He threw his hand against the table and began slamming his fist against it. At this point I laughed and told him to chill out, it's just a game.
He threw a hook at me, hitting me in the shoulder.
August 15, 2021 8:39 p.m.
No shot I ever would have played with the cheater who sleeved random cards mid game again. He would have been done in my group guaranteed. The guy who threw a punch at you would have been surprised when i crawled across the table to put him in his place. Things like this never happen to me. My best stories from Magic are actually interesting things that happened in game play. I dont have any fun i beat a man unconscious FOR REAL during a game of magic stories. In all fairness, at that point, they probably would have removed me from the event too.
August 15, 2021 8:45 p.m.
TypicalTimmy what kind of LGS/play group are you hanging out with man? That would be an instant ban in most places of buisness and maybe even some legal action. People cannot just go swinging at people because they're cheating and a game isnt going their way - assuming you didn't hit him back it could be considered assault in most places.
August 15, 2021 8:54 p.m.
I use to fight back, and quite viciously. Put a guy named Steven into the hospital when I wrenched him down concrete steps, slammed his head into a brick wall, then curb stomped his ribcage. Or Matt, who I struck in the sinuses and jaw with a steel plate.
But, as I got older, I've learned violence isn't always the answer. Often times, while it resolves it in that moment, it creates more problems later on. Very long-time followers of me know well about my anger issues and depression.
But this thread isn't about that. It's about proxies.
For the cheater, at that time we didn't have many people to play with. Excluding him would mean removing a considerable large amount of the group as it was only myself, Ian, Abraham and him - Jim. We sort of just 'dealt' with it.
As for the guy who punched me, I was essentially shell shocked. I was so dumbfounded and taken out of the moment from that type of a reaction to a very simple mistake that I couldn't process it. I just sat there, confused. To this day, I still struggle to comprehend that degree of elevation. I'd have gladly let him return Dread back to his hand or pick another creature. No harm, no foul. But... He chose the path of violence and I had no response. Just completely confused.
August 15, 2021 9 p.m.
perhaps relevant is when proxies first appeared i would stamp talk of them from the site anytime they came up, but as vendor after vendor began printing high quality proxies, i saw no evidence that wizards acknowledged or cared about this aspect of their IP, and so now we have a
*proxy* tag to designate your cards that you have no intention or ability to buy and want to remove from the price calculations.
August 15, 2021 9:57 p.m.
I feel like I remember that...was this about 7 years ago? I was a new player discovering this site and I now come here every time i come back of a hiatus from play. :p This site has been my home page for over 6 years now. Haha
August 15, 2021 10:09 p.m.
I proxy the cards I already own, not going to buy a stack of Urborg and Coffers. This morning I even scanned/printed Sram, Senior Edificer, who is dead cheap, for a new brewed deck. I dislike the idea of proxying cards because of the price tag, there is always a cheaper equivalent or combination of two or more cards, which can produce the same effect. Circle of Dreams Druid or Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip are good alternatives for a Gaea's Cradle, both cards still cost money, but they won't break the bank.
August 16, 2021 8:13 a.m.
I recommend exactly what the pros do when it comes to proxies...
Proxy everything all the time unless you're playing in an official sanctioned WotC event.
Don't abuse your valuable cards. Ever.
Don't fail to do proper testing because you didn't "own" the decks you expect to face in the upcoming tournament.
Don't buy expensive cards before you play with them and figure out if they're actually an investment you want to make given the results.
It seems like forever ago now, but I used to keep a sharpie on me at all times when I played at that level so I could instantly make changes and tweaks by just writing on a common I had handy nearby. Treat proxies the same way literally everyone I knew who played high level tournaments does: use em, always, except for official sanctioned events. Preserve the value of your investments for your future when you want to buy a car or a house or send a kid to college.
August 16, 2021 11:02 a.m. Edited.
Proxying cards is a great way for 10-15 year olds, people who can't drive for whatever reason, and people without gamestores in town. My town didn't have a game store until recently and proxies were my only way to create anything close to a functioning deck. And like others have said for people who can't afford to sink that money into a card game proxies can mean they're able to enjoy and get into the great game that is magic the gathering. When you need that doubling season to be able to top off your vorel of the hull clade/kiora Master of the depths combo (forgot how to do the card link) proxies can really help cut down on your budget. (I may be biased on this because I do use proxies, both for cards outside of my price range and cards I plan to get when I can)
August 16, 2021 8:11 p.m.
Proxying cards is a great way for 10-15 year olds, people who can't drive for whatever reason, and people without gamestores in town. My town didn't have a game store until recently and proxies were my only way to create anything close to a functioning deck. And like others have said for people who can't afford to sink that money into a card game proxies can mean they're able to enjoy and get into the great game that is magic the gathering. When you need that doubling season to be able to boost your vorel of the hull clade/kiora Master of the depths combo (forgot how to do the card link) proxies can really help cut down on your budget
August 16, 2021 8:12 p.m.
Sorry, I think my internet glitches out when I was hitting post so it posted twice
August 16, 2021 8:13 p.m.
With my group we have a rule that you are allow to have a proxy of a card you already own. The reason for that is that, if like me you like to have several decks, you don't want to be switching cards from decks - how many vampiric tutors am I to buy? Also there are some cards whose value are getting too high to bring them in other places or even play if you want to keep them in good condition. So yeah, we like proxies. My biggest problem with them is finding a safe place to buy them as most sites that sells them don't feel trustworthy. I kind of wish that starcity or store like that would sell them.
August 17, 2021 8:45 a.m.
Personally I do not proxy, nor does anyone in my group proxy. But my group plays almost exclusively jank decks that can be built on a relatively low budget. The type of play we tend to enjoy does not lend itself to proxies, and the conversation has never come up.
Teratologue - There is a reason sites that sell proxies are sketchy; they’re breaking the law. Wizards has made it very clear that they are fine with folks making proxies at home for non-tournament use; once you start selling the proxies, then you are profiting from Wizards’ intellectual property, and that’s not kosher.
Hence sketchy websites that are presumably housed in countries less strict about intellectual properties, with the sites themselves likely made on a shoestring budget so they can be shut down and reopened with relative ease.
You will never see a big name Magic store sell proxies - they do not want to get sued.
August 17, 2021 9:21 a.m.
Proxies are a no no for LGS play. If WotC find out an LGS has allowed proxies they will drop them from all Mtg.
August 17, 2021 3:39 p.m.
The problem with proxies, to me, is that like nineteen times out of twenty it's done for power-level reasons. Proxying a bunch of $50-$400 cards will absolutely power up a deck by leaps and bounds. Having fun alternate arts or throwing in a few proxies for cards in the mail is one thing, but once a bunch of fake Imperial Seals, Gaea's Cradles, Serra's Sanctums, Wheel of Fortunes, Timetwisters, and the like start to appear it severely imbalances the game.
August 18, 2021 1:56 a.m.
Optimator - it's only an imbalance if only a certain person or persons can proxy. If everyone can proxy and sit down and have a discussion about expectations I don't see how this becomes an issue.
August 18, 2021 2:42 a.m.
My view of proxies has changed over time, and the longer I play, the more okay with them I am.
It dawned on me, especially with how the cost of cards has skyrocketed over this past year, that it's a very elitist mindset to not allow them. Example, I bought a copy of Angus Mackenzie back around the time the first Theros set came out for about $70. While still very expensive for most people, now it's far worst with him currently (according to mtggoldfish) commands a price of $550. And there are similar stories for may other old cards. Think Greater Auramancy not a reserved list card, and if you were playing 10 years ago, you could have picked it up for about $5, but if you're trying to get it for a deck today, you'd have to spend $75-80 to get that same piece of cardboard.
So that being said, why should a new/returning player have to pay more for a card to play in their deck just because they weren't playing X years ago? Or didn't have the foresight to buy it when it was cheap if they didn't have any reason to think it would skyrocket like it would, or didn't realize they'd need it years later? If I tell someone I can play with the card I bought when it was cheap, but they can't make their own cheap copy of, then that's me gating someone else out of playing the game at the same level as I am.
My feelings evolved initially with the concept that I'd keep a binder of staple cards for the format and proxy them into decks. Basically that idea of if you own one, you can run it in any deck you want. But then started looking at cards that aren't very strong but do have niche uses in certain deck, but also are expensive because reserved list. So I made up some pretty realistic proxies of those cards. I knew I'd never run those cards in any deck other than this one commander where it made sense to do so, and didn't feel like it made the deck too powerful, but also wasn't worth the cost of buying it. This in turn lead me to the mindset of not being willing to spend insane amounts of money on cards Wizards refuses to reprint to meet the player demand, even if I don't own the card. And now I just received back from a local printer an entire commander deck of 100% proxy cards, all professionally run off on the right weight cardstock for about $35 including shipping.
Obviously I do think this needs to be balanced by knowing who you're playing with and what level of power those people will want to proxy up. But that's the same thought of playing with those people even if they had all paper cards.... so it's not terribly likely that proxies are the problem here.
August 18, 2021 1:11 p.m.
rshistorysmuf I'm not so sure about this.... I can't think of any time I've been in a LGS and NOT seen at least one player with custom art cards. These are, for all intents and purposes, proxy cards, and no one at the stores ever said a word about them.
August 18, 2021 1:13 p.m.
wereotter - I think he's referring to sanctioned events with prizes. If a player were to report that a store is allowing proxies in sanctioned events their wpn status could be pulled. My lgs almost got their status pulled cause some ass hat reported that we were drafting with new product early. Which is also a big no no.
August 18, 2021 1:19 p.m.
RNR_Gaming oh for sure, for sanctioned MtG events, Wizards sets the rules, and they say only official cards allowed. So that's fine. But I still think for anything unofficial, this shouldn't be an issue. I'm more thinking along the lines of when a game store hosts a commander night.
August 18, 2021 1:23 p.m.
wereotter it really depends on how WotC wants to respond to it. They can't really keep players from using proxies or custom art but they can pull a store's ability to run sanctioned events. And they can do that for any reason they feel like. See Yeahgo's comment above. Proxies are of ...questionable legality. So just having them in an lgs, WotC has the ability to decide they don't like that. I haven't seen/heard them put their foot down like that. Only for sanctioned events as of yet.
August 18, 2021 1:43 p.m.
I'll add to that, I just used makeplayingcards dot com to have the whole deck run off. This is the card stock they use by default. It definitely feels smoother than a standard Magic card, but if you have your cards in sleeves, then by sight and weight they're very close to the same.
DrukenReaps I would highly doubt that Wizards would pull the ability for a story to host events because I sat down at an open table (my local game store is basically just a bunch of tables with one small counter at the front) and started playing a casual game with some friends but had custom art cards in my deck. It would be a really bad look for the company to do that, and would result in PR issues they likely wouldn't want to deal with. But not only that, but it would rely on either someone I'm playing with, or some passerby not on the game to realize I'm using a proxy and report that to Wizards, and they'd probably have to prove that claim as well, which could be hard. Not arguing Wizards can't, I'm honestly not sure what that procedure would look like... but more that if it's a casual playing, especially not in a sanctioned event, it's unlikely it would be worth it to them to pursue banning the store over it.
August 18, 2021 2 p.m.
for me it's a big YES! tapped is nice to test your commander, but it won't do against opponents so with proxies you can test your deck BEFORE buying cards so the final result may alter from the first brew of the deck. it saved me a lot of money before buying cards because of that. cards I was sure was very useful in the deck turns out to be the worst! Don't be ashamed of using proxy. as long as you're going to buy the cards afterwards. no problem with that. also not everyone's rich we all have budget so if you stick with proxies because you can't afford it. fine by me. EDH is to have pleasure with your opponents (friends) so as long have you're having a good time yee stick with it and when you can afford it, go ahead!
August 18, 2021 2:20 p.m.
RNR_Gaming it wouldn't be an issue in a personal game group but it's an issue in an LGS or MagicFest setting
August 18, 2021 4:22 p.m.
wereotter not disagreeing with you that it'd be a shitty and weird thing for them to do. Also WotC has done shitty and weird things. lol
August 18, 2021 4:55 p.m.
They keep releasing sanctioned whale-products with all new hyped alterna-art that don't look like magic cards & it will be difficult for some people to know what alterna-arts are even proxies without a close eye :)
August 18, 2021 8:18 p.m.
If you own it, and you don't wanna ruin it: Proxy it. If I owned a black lotus, and wanted to play it in a deck, I'm definitely using a proxy. Same goes for most cards over $100 that aren't depreciating in value.