Persist combo: in which colours is it better?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 12, 2019, 10:39 a.m. by IlGuale
Tl;dr: i'd like to play a deck with a persist combo to trigger etb and ltb effects (or similar), but i don't know which is better between Abzan, Jund or WRGB.
Long version to contextualize: my first legendary creature ever was Teneb, the Harvester and i wanted to build something in its colours. Looking for something Abzan does better than others i found out that persist combo has a lot of pieces to work with in that wedge: green and white have a lot of persisting creature, some sacrifice outlet, some tutor and a lot of ways to give +1/+1 counter to creature entering the battlefield; black offers tutors, sacrifice outlets and ETB/LTB triggers. The problem is that abzan doesn't have exactly the best commanders ever. Teneb himself is more of a value oriented beefcake, Karador and Ghave are better in this role, but not exceptional and i'm not familiar with partners.
Jund, on the other side, trades all the nice counter sinergies of white ( Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit , Juniper Order Ranger , Good-Fortune Unicorn , Vizier of Remedies ) plus Corpse Knight and Cruel Celebrant , for the big bad Prossh, Skyraider of Kher and its cousin Korvold, Fae-Cursed King and everything they bring along such as Grumgully, the Generous and Murderous Redcap .
There's also the option of going WRBG, but it may be too greedy.
Has anyone experience with this kind of deck? If yes, what do you play? If not, what would you like to play? Thanks for your time.
GhostChieftain says... #3
I personally love Karador, but I know that tymna/sidar is the best abzan commander. Tymna is just fantastic card advantage and sidar is the best in relevant colors for abzan because it lets your dorks hit so you can draw off tymna. Realistically you would be better off going tymna/tana and having all the colors for your plan, or tymna/thrasios for more draw and for the fact that they are the actual best commanders in a lot of situations that involve any of those colors.
I dont think 4 color is too greedy as long as your land base can support it. You best not be trying to do it off just a command tower, some guild gates and basics or you will have a bad time
October 12, 2019 11:33 a.m. Edited.
griffstick says... #4
So built a Grumgully, the Generous deck that's currently private because it's not ready that after play testing can assemble three different 3 card game winning combos by turn 11. And it's only in its beginnings. I think that being a new cards and providing the 1 piece you need for the combo in the command zone makes it the best choice.
October 12, 2019 12:12 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
Ghave is a great persist shenanigans commander. You can get up to all sorts of nonsense and have a sac outlet/counter source in the command zone. Granted his ability costs mana, but there are ways around that.
October 12, 2019 12:34 p.m.
Thank you all for your answers, really. Abzkaban i actually considered Ghave the best commander for this kind of deck alongside Karador after seeing your deck while browsing for answers. That's a really weall done and nasty list and i like it a lot (even if my inner Timmy screams "saproling tribal" every time i see it ).
About the colours' choice, reading your comments is making me ponder about the opportunity-cost of Jund: Prossh/Korvold, plus Murderous Redcap and Grumgully, the Generous probably aren't worth losing all that sweet white cards. As griffstick pointed out, having a combo piece in the command zone is more than valuable, but that's something Ghave can do, although with a bigger mana investment than Grumgully.
As for the commanders... That should have been the topic of this question. With a bit of effort one can make persist combo work in Abzan, Jund, Gruul or even monowhite the problem is finding the best commander. As of now, my thoughts are: - Prossh/ Korvold: i love them, but white>red in this one specific case. - Grumgully: he's strong, but i think that black is too much utility to pass up. - Teneb: it simply doesn't fit. - Anafenza, the Foremost : can be incidentally good, but i doubt she is the most fitted for this role, in Abzan. - Karador: a persist deck would probably have a strong graveyard subtheme and who's the best in recurring small creatures from the yard? - Ghave: it has the colours, the sinergy with counters and the ability to sac creatures to give counters, potentially looping two persist creatures until my manapool is empty. - Sidar Kondo and Tymna: persist creature and enablers start as little dorks and those partners represents a way to chip at opponent's life total and draw a ton of cards, if i decide to not pump my team. - Ravos and Reyhan: both have weak synergies with the rest of the deck, so i suppose they're a viable option. - Saskia: would simply be a placeholder for her colours. - other WBRG partners: i don't know them much, but i feel that they wouldn't really help my game.
In the end, i think that Ghave or Karador are the best options i have now, but as i said i don't know partners very well and i'm not an expert in EDH, so it's very possible that i forgot or misjudged someone. Again, thank you all for your answers, i appreciated it.
October 12, 2019 5:57 p.m.
EDIT: the mid part of my comment isn't ordered as i thought it would be. This should look better and easier to read.
As for the commanders... That should have been the topic of this question. With a bit of effort one can make persist combo work in Abzan, Jund, Gruul or even monowhite the problem is finding the best commander. As of now, my thoughts are:
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Prossh/ Korvold: i love them, but white>red in this one specific case. - Grumgully: he's strong, but i think that black is too much utility to pass up. - Teneb: it simply doesn't fit.
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Anafenza, the Foremost: can be incidentally good, but i doubt she is the most fitted for this role, in Abzan.
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Karador: a persist deck would probably have a strong graveyard subtheme and who's the best in recurring small creatures from the yard?
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Ghave: it has the colours, the sinergy with counters and the ability to sac creatures to give counters, potentially looping two persist creatures until my manapool is empty.
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Sidar Kondo and Tymna: persist creature and enablers start as little dorks and those partners represents a way to chip at opponent's life total and draw a ton of cards, if i decide to not pump my team.
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Ravos and Reyhan: both have weak synergies with the rest of the deck, so i suppose they're a viable option.
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Saskia: would simply be a placeholder for her colours.
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others WBRG partners: i don't know them much, but i feel that they wouldn't really help my game.
October 12, 2019 6:03 p.m.
Thanks! If you haven’t upvoted it yet, you should do that.
I agree with your conclusion. Ghave or Karador will be your best bet. The question is whether you want the +1/+1 counters in the command zone or a more reanimator style deck overall.
October 12, 2019 6:04 p.m. Edited.
Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest is a persist combo piece in the command zone, I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned yet. I have not really focused on it for my Mazi deck, but the combo is available just in case.
Mazirek Sac-Storm: The *Primer* of Life & Death
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 136 | 49 COMMENTS | 14457 VIEWS | IN 56 FOLDERS
Using Mazi in Karador is probably best if you just wanna combo though.
October 14, 2019 7:32 a.m. Edited.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #10
I would always weight white in these decks over red as i think the combo pieces are more important than the pay offs.
I like the idea of Karador over ghave as his in built recurrion will be nice ans ghave's sac outlet costs mana.
October 14, 2019 9:47 a.m.
In a deck focused purely on persist, I agree with SP3CTR3_chelts. Ghave has some synergy with persist and why persist creatures are in my deck, but I don’t focus on them fully. Karador would give you ways to consistently get your combo pieces.
Abzkaban says... #2
I use persist creatures in my Ghave deck:
Ghave That Bitch an Infinite Combo [Primer]
Commander / EDH Abzkaban
SCORE: 311 | 190 COMMENTS | 38844 VIEWS | IN 129 FOLDERS
Personally I’d go with Abzan for the counters synergy, though I might be biased. You could go WBRG if you wanted, but your mana base will be more expensive. What commanders were you considering?
October 12, 2019 10:46 a.m.