New Chain Veil Combo
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 8, 2019, 4:02 p.m. by DarkHero
Let me know how right or wrong I am with this. I've been looking long and hard at The Chain Veil with Mairsil, the Pretender thinking there is a way to break it. If I'm way off I apologize.
Mairsil, the Pretender Cages Quicksilver Elemental , Gilded Lotus , Morphling , and The Chain Veil .
-Tap Mairsil, for
-
Pay for untap Mairsil
-
Pay for refreshed abilities (Potential replace this with a flicker effect?)
-
Tap Mairsil for
Makes 1 additional mana each time, resulting in infinite mana
We can use to untap any number of times to trigger The Chain Veil Effect. Each instance of the "once this turn" effect resets and we should be able to abuse whatever Planeswalkers as many times as we want.
My understanding of The Chain Veil combo is limited at best, and same can be said for my understanding of Mairsil, the Pretender . But give or take some of my own mix ups, I think there is a thing here somewhere.
Gidgetimer says... #3
Both of the above comments are missing that Mairsil, the Pretender says "you may activate each of these abilities only once each turn." The loop you described should work, although The Chain Veil ability you are talking about is an activated ability.
October 8, 2019 4:57 p.m.
My understanding was that the only way to get around Mairsil, the Pretender 's "only once each turn" text was to either flicker to reset it, or use Quicksilver Elemental to sort of make a new version of the abilities.
How are we getting around this text? Mairsil gains the activated abilities, but can "techniqually" only use one per turn. What am I missing?
October 8, 2019 5:03 p.m.
CrimsonChaos says... #5
If I'm understanding this correctly, the intention here is for Mairsil to use Quicksilver Elemental 's ability to have Mairsil target itself, thus gaining some sort of additional instance of its own abilities, yes? But I'm not sure that works either since Mairsil's abilities aren't technically activated abilities, right? The first part is a triggered ability on ETB and the second is a static ability. So as best as I can tell, nothing is being "refreshed" with this, and each ability can still only be activated once per turn. On the other hand, I'm by no means a judge, so I could also be off-base with my logic here.
October 8, 2019 6:13 p.m.
I provide this as tribute
602.5c If an object acquires an activated ability with a restriction on its use from another object, that restriction applies only to that ability as acquired from that object. It doesn’t apply to other, identically worded abilities.
113.10a An effect that adds an activated ability may include activation instructions for that ability. These instructions become part of the ability that’s added to the object
So there seems to some debate as to the actual ruling with some changes after Ixalan, but it seems to fall somewhere between Quicksilver Elemental permanently gives a new instance of an identically worded ability that doesn't have the restriction or does have it so you have to pay it each time. Either way it will work in this case, one would just work better.
October 8, 2019 7:07 p.m.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/781610-mairsil-quicksilver-elemental
For sake of reference this is the arguement I was referring to.
October 8, 2019 7:11 p.m.
yeah this is more parts than what any sort of game should allow happen in commander you would need also some way to have marsil etb trigger 3+ times, needs haste or to live a turn round, and a planeswalker to abuse. All without any of these pieces being effects that tutor/draw/self mill in any way. You could build this combo, but you would need spectators and not opponents to pull it off.
But to make this combo quite a bit more consistent why not replace veil and planeswalkers with Walking Ballista , less cards to combine and on it's own can be useful.
October 8, 2019 7:15 p.m.
I did miss the part about activating only once each turn... that means you likely need either a haste enabler... or need to find a way to phase Mairsil, the Pretender out and back in. Something like what Flickering Spirit does. In grixis, haste is probably easier, though according to the article you linked, since the ixalan rules change, Quicksilver Elemental seems to work too once mairsil no longer has summoning sickness.
October 9, 2019 11:41 a.m.
For what it's worth, any ability that doesnt require tapping doesnt care about summoning sickness. We can could use Quicksilver Elemental and anything else that doesn't tap without worrying about haste.
October 9, 2019 12:06 p.m.
DarkHero not exactly. Gilded Lotus requires you to tap. So you’re always worried about haste one way or another. Unless there’s a sustainable way to make mana that doesn’t require tapping.
DuTogira says... #2
This combo works fine with just Gilded Lotus + Mairsil, the Pretender + Morphling . I'm... a little unsure what Quicksilver Elemental is doing to help this combo, since Mairsil, the Pretender already gains the activated abilities of all cards exiled by her with a cage counter.
As far as your pay-off, sure The Chain Veil works, but it requires you to have a walker in play. You could just as easily use something like Cinder Pyromancer or Walking Ballista to make your payoff simpler.
I'd also recommend something like Deadeye Navigator as your "flicker" enabler. Other than having to assemble that 4-5 (depending on how you count Deadeye Navigator ) card combo, you just face the issue of having to stick Mairsil, the Pretender for a full round or somehow give her haste so that she can tap for mana a-la Gilded Lotus ability.
It totally works, but I don't think it's cEDH material by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of moving pieces (read "opportunities for disruption") that are still gated by summoning sickness. Cool find though! It's always nice to see new combo ideas in commander!
October 8, 2019 4:22 p.m.