Manaless and Bananaless
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 23, 2020, 10:02 a.m. by Reznorboy
I couldn't come up with a good title. Anyway,
I always thought that manaless dredge was super amazingly cool, but I also think Commander is awesome, and unfortunately, the two don't go together.
UNTIL NOW (possibly).
Basically, a lot of my EDH playing friends think that Bolas's Citadel is an amazing card, and even though it can be pretty good, people inevitably hit a land and then end up having to pass after going pseudo-storm mode.
I then had an idea.
NO LANDS. (Drops bass).
Basically, my concept was to play one of two commanders, Oloro, Ageless Ascetic or K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth.
Both builds would attempt to use a stupid quantity of mana artifacts in order to replace the lack of lands in the deck. They would then also play a few tutors.
Oloro, obviously, gains life, allows more colors, and once out, allows for card draw and burn through his ability.
K'rrik has life gain, helps play the Citadel in the first place, but does not seem quite as good in my opinion (for this build).
It is also a possibility that only a very small number of lands would be played, possibly with a strong top-deck manipulator (such as Proteus Staff).
My main question is, do you all think that this could be at all viable (like, maybe a 7 out of 10, if built correctly?)
EleshNornsFs says... #3
In order to effectively run K'rrik as the commander, I think you would need some stupid amounts of life gain. Which doesn't really happen in black. Oloro would be your best bet, with K'rrik in the 99, but that does leave out the green in dredge. But if the idea is more about mana rocks and Bolas's Citadel, you don't really need dredge. Seems a little ridiculous to pull off. I'd imagine that due to the inconsistency, the best you could pull is a 4 or 5.
September 23, 2020 11:42 a.m.
I forgot to mention that the build I suggested had nothing to do with dredge. It would be all mana rocks, tutors, and Bolas's Citadel.
September 23, 2020 12:05 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #5
Instead of trying to play Dredge, play lifegain Storm. There're a lot of cards that'll help you get cards off the top of your deck.
For instance: Use cards like Ghoulcaller's Bell to get rid of the top of your deck.
Additionally, use cards like Mana Severance, Foresight and Manipulate Fate to remove lands from your deck.
Cards like Dimir Infiltrator and Muddle the Mixture will be a great addition to your Mystical Tutor, Personal Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor etc. Use Treasure Mage and Enlightened Tutor to get Citadel.
Basically, all you need to do is resolve Citadel and Mana Severance and you can cast the rest of your deck. To that end, run barely usable lifegain spells like Chaplain's Blessing to basically be rituals.
September 23, 2020 12:15 p.m.
GenericToaster says... #6
What about using a lot of those new modal spell-lands from zendikar? it'd still give you lands on the back but you could still do your psuedo storms with the front
September 23, 2020 1:16 p.m.
TriusMalarky, yeah I think you're right. If I want to make the deck viable, I just need to play a small number of lands and a way to get rid of them. I just thought it was a cool idea. I might try it. Thanks.
September 23, 2020 1:17 p.m.
GenericToaster says... #9
Here's all the modal spell-lands from zendikar that would fit in oloro's color scheme
September 23, 2020 1:42 p.m.
You can play lands just fine. You just need to be able to cantrip over them. If I built a deck as you describe, it would feature Lich, Lich's Mastery, Lich's Mirror, and Platinum Angel, because we will not end up life positive. I would choose an esper commander in order to have access to artifact tutors such as Treasure Mage and enchantment tutors such as Academy Rector, as well as recursion, lifelink/lifegain, powerful black tutors, and blink/flicker effects. Sharuum the Hegemon would be my commander of choice as we can flicker him to recur our combo pieces. I like your idea and look forward to seeing it develop.
-0rc
September 23, 2020 1:52 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #11
Something like this? (No, I have not tested it.) Manaless and Bananaless v.1
September 23, 2020 2:28 p.m.
GenericToaster says... #12
Here's my take on it. (exsanguinate because im running like 40 mana rocks)
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/alexs-favorite-deck/?cb=1600886439
September 23, 2020 2:42 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #13
I know that I really should go get a life, but instead I have been spending a lot of time testing and tweaking the deck. I am at a crossroads at this point. The question is whether or not to try Mana Severance. I don't want to have yet another card to tutor for and cast before storming off, but I also need the consistency of more land. What are y'all's thoughts on it?
October 8, 2020 11:37 a.m.
EleshNornsFs: the consistency of more lands in play? cuz Mana Severance won't help with that.
October 8, 2020 12:07 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #15
Pyrra The deck is currently landless (with the exception of MDFC's) in order to allow Bolas's Citadel to cast the WHOLE library all at once. Including Mana Severance would allow me to put land into the deck and then remove them once the Citadel madness starts.
October 8, 2020 12:57 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #17
24 characters over 6? On the internet, a place where 4-letter words are reduced to 1-2 letters on a regular basis?
Boomer much?
October 8, 2020 1:50 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #18
No sense in saying their full name if they have a handy abbreviation. You knew what I meant.
Massacar says... #2
Manaless dredge is generally difficult to pull off in EDH
I think K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is a decent candidate for this build personally since he lets you directly convert your life into mana even without the citadel in play. Plus if you play anything with extort, it become a wincon when combined with K'rrik in a multiplayer game. The problem is that mono-black won't get you access to as many dredge cards. So unfortunately the best K'rrik could probably do is a Mana-lite dredge.
Most manaless dredge decks I've seen tried in EDH have been 5 color decks.
Also for a top deck manipulator would definitely recommend Scroll Rack. It's pricy but definitely worth it.
September 23, 2020 11:02 a.m.