Killing by giving opponents "positive" effects?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on June 13, 2022, 12:38 a.m. by BigBadE
I'm trying to make a "kill them with kindness deck". The basic idea is to give opponents cards I have with things like Blim, Comedic Genius. This is easy enough, and there are a lot of cards you can give opponents that just have inherent downsides. However, is there any way to lose from positive effects? For example:
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Forcing an opponent to draw enough to mill them to death
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Any card that takes life for some non-optional trigger (for example, Demonlord Belzenlok, Kothophed, Soul Hoarder. Phage the Untouchable technically works but I'd like something more like Belzenlok or Kothophed, which takes life.)
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Any other gimmicks that can be abused to deal damage with things like token generation, mana generation, draw, etc... (like if mana burn was still around, giving your opponent a ton of mana)
This is limited by two factors:
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I can't find any way to force opponents to cast instants/sorceries (If you know of one, I'd love to hear it!)
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I can't find any way to force trigger abilities on an opponent's creatures (maybe can I give them to an opponent after triggering the ability? Any possible way to do this is welcome as well).
Any ideas are welcome, I know it's a strange idea but I bet there are a few cards that would work.
psionictemplar says... #3
I have a non-commander deck that uses Zedruu the Greathearted and Transcendence. Would that fit your theme?
June 13, 2022 1:58 a.m.
TypicalTimmy: you can subscribe to threads without having to comment on them. There's a "Subscribe" button which does just that.
BigBadE: I think if you're going to build a 'killing them with kindness" deck then you're going to struggle if you limit yourself to black/red (assuming you're using Blim as commander). There are cards like Forced Fruition which can drown your opponents in cards. You can also look into cards like Suture Priest and Hunted Troll (i.e. giving your opponents creatures which then kills them).
many years ago, I played against a deck (it was 60 card multiplayer, not commander) which used Endless Whispers with cards like Bronze Bombshell and Phage the Untouchable to win the game. You could look into effects like that as well if it were what you're after.
June 13, 2022 2:01 a.m.
psionictemplar: Yes! That's a great card and fits the theme very well, thanks for the suggestion
enpc: I didn't specify a color boundary cause it's 5 color, Blim is just a card in the deck (same with Zedruu the Greathearted). Forced Fruition is a great one, but I want to see if I can completely kill opponents with their own effects, I know there are cards that damage opponents when their creatures die or when they discard cards but I want to see if there are any that damage you (kill them only by giving them cards). If it isn't possible I'll probably use Suture Priest, but mill seems viable right now.
June 13, 2022 11:51 a.m.
I found Baleful Force which works perfectly. The deck runs a lot of token doublers and myriad triggers to give me more stuff to give away and more ways to give it away, so anything like that is perfect.
June 13, 2022 12:02 p.m.
carpecanum says... #7
Hive Mind forces people to cast spells that have been cast by others (preferably you). It can kill people with limited mana choices if you cast the various "pact" spells like Summoner's Pact
June 13, 2022 12:16 p.m.
Since you mentioned mana burn, there is of course Yurlok of Scorch Thrash. There are a lot of ways to abuse his ability with your own cards (I especially like Blinkmoth Urn and Belbe, Corrupted Observer with Yurlok). But there are a lot of cards that could be donated to add to his destructiveness. Braid of Fire and Black Market come to mind, but I know there's more stuff that forces you to add a ton of mana.
Also, my all-time favorite donate move is Illusions of Grandeur.
June 13, 2022 12:36 p.m.
carpecanum: Wow, that's a cool card! Definitely going in the deck.
Epicurus: Oh my god, Yurlok of Scorch Thrash + Blinkmoth Urn is perfect. I wanted to somehow kill players with artifact tokens like treasures or food, and that fits the bill.
The deck right now is Kill 'em with kindness, I've written a description with all the win conditions I have so far. It should be enough, but any other deck suggestions or comments are welcome.
June 13, 2022 1:22 p.m.
I mean I always love the classic Immortal Coil + Donate/Bazaar Trader. Since you mentioned you want to force your opponents to cast spells, the perfect card for that is Hive Mind :) edit: just saw that somebody already mentioned that.
June 13, 2022 3:42 p.m. Edited.
FormOverFunction says... #11
Going the card draw route works REALLY nicely with that devil’s discard effect. I would run headlong into that.
June 13, 2022 7:44 p.m.
I think I'm gonna go for multiple win conditions, both with devil discard, mill through enchantment duplication, life gain, and mana burn.
June 13, 2022 11:34 p.m.
I have seen a Phelddgrif deck that played Angel's Trumpet and some, I forget what, some way to keep creatures from attacking you. That made infinite hippos, made it so they couldn't attack, and then killed with trumpet. It was convoluted, but kinda awesome : )
June 14, 2022 9:35 a.m.
Megalomania says... #14
I’m using Vows and Impetus cards (Vow of Flight, Vow of Wildness, Shiny Impetus) in my deck. It doesn’t “kill” the target/owner but it does help him kill our opponents. Also found it to be extra fun since it sends everyone to panic especially if I manage to put said auras on creatures capable of 1-hit KOs like Shu Yun or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon.
June 16, 2022 5:38 p.m.
FormOverFunction mentioned card draw, so I had to come back and comment: Forced Fruition
TypicalTimmy says... #2
I have nothing to contribute, but this sounds super interesting and would like updates on the conversations at hand, so I am commenting to be subscribed to this thread.
Carry on, and apologies for being of no use here :(
June 13, 2022 12:54 a.m.