Do these two cards permanently exile a creature every turn?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on June 20, 2020, 4:09 p.m. by StopShot
Cards: Molten Echoes + Fiend Hunter or Faceless Butcher (You just need one of the creature cards and the enchantment.)
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You have the enchantment out naming the creature type corresponding to the creature of your choice.
You then cast the creature and get an ETB from the creature and an ETB from the enchantment you can order however you want. Have the enchantment ETB resolve first and the creature ETB resolve second targeting a problematic creature you want to remove.
You'll first create a token of the creature which has its own ETB that's put on the stack above the original creature's ETB. The token creature will target and exile the original creature. This causes the "Leave the Battlefield" trigger of the original creature to resolve first before its ETB can resolve meaning the targeted problematic creature gets permanently exiled.
But not only that, but when the end step comes around the token gets exiled by the red enchantment's effect causing the original creature to return back to the battlefield which means you can keep repeating this process on every end step.
But there's even more, if your opponents run out of creatures you can exile instead you can target your own creatures with the exile effect, but this time you always have the original creature's ETB resolve first before the enchantment's ETB, which means when the token's ETB exiles the original creature, the creature the original creature was exiling will return to the battlefield effectively creating a flicker effect meaning you can also choose to trigger any of your other creature's ETB's every end step as well.
So basically every end step you can either permanently exile an opponent's creature OR retrigger any ETB of any of your own creatures that you want for free.
And well, if you add a sac-outlet like Goblin Bombardment or Phyrexian Altar you now have infinite "exile target creature," "infinite ETB's of any of your creatures" and your choice of infinite damage or mana or whatever depending on your sac outlet.
Even without a sac outlet, the token creature you create makes a recurring chump blocker that will also create the same end step effect whenever it dies to combat as well meaning you can potentially double the output of this effect if your opponent's attack you along with having the added bonus of acquiring an undying chump blocker.
I just want to point out this card synergy is busted. Is anyone else using this?
Omniscience_is_life says... #3
shadow63 would you mind elaborating? It’s not the most helpful when you denounce something without a reason. Thanks
June 20, 2020 4:27 p.m.
I... I think this works. When a creature gets exiled it comes back as a “new” creature, so you are exiling a creature forever...
good find. That’s pretty borked.
NOTES AND RULES INFORMATION FOR FIEND HUNTER: If Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the target creature indefinitely. This is different from abilities on other cards that exile a permanent “until” something happens. (2018-12-07) Once the exiled creature returns, it’s considered a new object with no relation to the object that it was. Auras attached to the exiled creature will be put into their owners’ graveyards. Equipment attached to the exiled creature will become unattached and remain on the battlefield. Any counters on the exiled creature will cease to exist. (2018-12-07) If a token is exiled this way, it won’t return to the battlefield. (2018-12-07) In a multiplayer game, if you lose the game, the creature exiled with Fiend Hunter remains exiled indefinitely. This is also different from abilities on other cards that exile a permanent “until” something happens. (2018-12-07)
June 20, 2020 4:38 p.m. Edited.
@DuTogira, that's the rules interaction I'm referring to.
Creating a token can exile the original Fiend Hunter/Faceless Butcher, before the original can exile a creature if you stack the triggers correctly. This causes the leave the battlefield effect to come first and then the original exile trigger can resolve. This means the exiled creature is lost forever.
And because this happens you can exile a creature every turn if you're in or .
June 20, 2020 6:07 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #7
Warnings, in response to the token's etb target, if it gets killed, you lose the original forever too. So, for all intents and purposes, this is a fragile combo, but if you can protect this with some Sylvan Safekeeper, Giver of Runes or Mother of Runes (especially mother, as it is a human for Fiend Hunter, if this is a tribal deck).
Otherwise yes, this has even been used against me in a Winota, Joiner of Forces deck, I beat it, but only since my single useful creature had shroud, and the other creatures were just a Containment Priest and someone else's Gilded Drake when they stole something idk.
June 20, 2020 7:59 p.m.
Add Tidehollow Sculler and you can exile cards from players hands as well. These are pretty common combos with Alesha, Who Smiles at Death decks.
June 20, 2020 8:42 p.m.
You can even stack bounce on a creature to get the same result. A long time ago, briefly in Standard, Mangara of Corondor was tournament legal along with a card you could activate to return him to your hand. So you activate his ability,exiling himself and a target creature, then respond and return him to your hand with something like Crystal Shard and when they resolve, Mangara gets returned to hand, then exiles himself and target creature. Since he's not on the battlefield when the exile resolves, nothing happens to him. But the target creature exiles for good.
June 21, 2020 2:05 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #10
June 21, 2020 2:08 p.m.
Right, Karakas! I was typing my note and could not remember that card name! So i put the shard as an example of what type of card to use. Thank you for mentioning it.
June 21, 2020 2:15 p.m.
Just a point of refrence
12/7/2018 - If Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield before its first ability has resolved, its second ability will trigger and do nothing. Then its first ability will resolve and exile the target creature indefinitely. This is different from abilities on other cards that exile a permanent “until” something happens.
P.S. i love your idea of adding alter to this mix for infinite mana
shadow63 says... #2
This does not permanently exile.
June 20, 2020 4:21 p.m.