Casually looking at the top card of your library.
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 1, 2018, 9:35 p.m. by GasMask93
How do you guys feel about players casually looking at the top cards of their library whenever they please? Cheating or not?
jparker-sartori21 says... #3
100% cheating. If ur playgroup sets this as a rule it's ok but otherwise it is blatant cheating. It gives a significant advantage!
April 1, 2018 9:55 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #4
It is right up there with showing other players their hands. Inexcusable and makes me not want to play with them again.
April 1, 2018 9:57 p.m.
Always cheating in my book, and not even called for as a house rule in my opinion, as it's just too vague and unstructured. If your playgroup wants to create a specific option to scry for a land, say in the case that you already missed a land drop with fewer than five lands in play, then I can get on board with that reasoning. People just randomly looking at the top card of their library without reason...nah. That's just garbage game playing. Someone doing that in a poker game would have a broken hand and a swift kick in the butt out the door of the card room.
April 1, 2018 10:50 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #6
I can only really see this happening in a caf @ Amsterdam, lolz.
April 1, 2018 11:01 p.m.
Unless they have Sphinx of Jwar Isle in play or taking mulligans before the game, that's cheating.
April 2, 2018 8:11 a.m.
As others have said, I agree that it provides an unfair advantage if only one player is doing it--after all, you know what your next card is going to be, so can more effectively utilize the cards in your hand.
Now, if everyone were allowed to look at their top card, that would make things more "fair", though I am still against the idea. Part of what makes Magic fun is playing the odds and adjusting to the cards you draw. Knowing your next draw seems to go against a fundamental component of the game's design.
Also, it is explicitly against the rules:
Rule 401.2: Each library must be kept in a single face-down pile. Players cant look at or change the order of cards in a library.
April 2, 2018 9:27 a.m.
I think the context of when this is happening is important too.
Players in my play group do this, but it only ever happens in one of two scenarios:
1) It's been 10 minutes since your last turn (we have a group of six, it happens a lot), and you're bored, and tapped out, and looking lets you plan out your next turn.
2) Someone has basically won, and you look at the top card, to see if it can do anything about this, and if it can you get to say "Aw man, I was one turn away from stopping you"
In these scenarios, no one cares.
April 2, 2018 10:25 a.m.
landofMordor says... #10
Epidilius youre so right! Context really matters. My small playgroup is very permissive of that if a) youre tapped out and post combat, and b) if your opponent is figuring out how high they need to Storm for the kill. But in most other cases, its annoying if not cheating.
April 2, 2018 6:22 p.m.
Looking at the top card while in the active game no matter what the reason is a rules violation. Honestly there is no reason to do this. The only way I look at the top card is after the game is over, or after I have conceeded (in which the game is over anyways). During the game, even if for casual play, that is giving yourself an unfair advantage.
April 2, 2018 7:02 p.m.
landofMordor says... #12
Heres why it might be acceptable: Magic is a game, played for fun. When a playgroup has fun despite looking at a topdeck, that seems like a great reason to me.
Of course, I will never advocate for a) doing that at a tournament, b) forcing that style on people who dont want to play like that, or c) using free scrys as a means to win. Never. Thats the worst.
However, my playgroup is very tight, casual, and very trusting of each other. We usually forget who won as soon as the next deck is shuffled. If we can avoid a torturous game of color-screw or expedite a grindy win through a resolved Butcher of Malakir by checking if were going to draw removal or not, we trust each other not to take advantage of that action. Cuz we might get to play another game if we dont play out a Butcher soft lock. Make sense?
Rest assured, I wont ever pull a stunt like that if I visit your playgroup, or play as a pro (: but otherwise I dont plan to take it too seriously.
April 2, 2018 8:49 p.m.
If someone has to head out the door, and they're losing anyways, and everyone is cool with it, meh.
What I would hate is some who is clearly losing looking at the top, finding Praetor's Grasp or whatever, and then suddenly changing their mind and staying in. I'd say if you were quit before you're twice as quit now.
April 3, 2018 10:28 a.m.
fadelightningmm says... #14
In my play group we will only look at the top of a deck if another player has all, but won or if someone is so far behind their is no hope for a comeback. If it was a back and forth game then its totally cheating
April 5, 2018 5:43 p.m.
GamePunk226 says... #15
We do this in my group when a game has gone on too long. It helps to see if the next card will put a person into the game, or if they are just hanging about for the next round.
July 18, 2018 5:13 p.m.
It is not acceptable under normal circumstances, to which I accept one exception:
You had enough lands in your starting hand, but you didn't draw any since. It is now turn 6 and you are still playing off those 3 first lands. The other 3 players have ramped and are playing multiple spells, drawing cards and taking their sweet time. You really want to know if you have a land coming up or if you should just hit the Playstation for the next hour.
Bulldawg1310 says... #2
definitely cheating...you don't do that. that being said, you are in the commander forum and from what I understand there are quite a few "breakable" house rules that come into play with casual play groups, so if it is decided before the game that this is acceptable behavior than you cant bitch about it. In any other case this is unwarranted card advantage and is definitely cheating.
April 1, 2018 9:50 p.m.