Better than Cyclonic Rift?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on May 30, 2020, 6:31 p.m. by griffstick
Let the debate began
nope, hard to cast on top of being slow, less flexibility too.
May 30, 2020 7:28 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #4
More catastrophic to have cast against you than Cyclonic Rift? Absolutely.
Better than Cyclonic Rift? Absolutely not.
May 30, 2020 8:12 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
There isn't much debate. It is a crushing spell to resolve. It is nowhere near as good as rift.
May 30, 2020 8:23 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #6
Along with all the above points, Cyc rift without an overload can still be game winning. The 7 colored pips is real rough on the ultimatums.
May 30, 2020 9:25 p.m.
griffstick says... #7
I would much rather have cyclonic rift happen to me then ruinous ultimatum happen to me. You can rebuild from rift just by playing the spells again. But the ruinous ultimatum is game ending.
May 30, 2020 9:48 p.m. Edited.
griffstick says... #8
So what I understand is that even though you only put things back in their hand. The biggest reason it's better is the instant speed. The next being it's really easy to cast. These are all very, very true and I do agree it's also true. However, I'm more interested in what people are saying about it from the receiving end.
May 30, 2020 10:26 p.m.
I agree that I'd rather be hit with a Rift than hit with a Ruinous Ultimatum, but that doesn't mean Ultimatum is the better card. I'd rather be hit with either than get hit with a second casting of Approach of the Second Sun, but that doesn't make Approach the better card.
Rift is instant-speed. It can be cast using Sol Ring or Mana Crypt. It can be used for a single target in a pinch.
Ultimatum is sorcery-speed. It has to be cast with colored mana. It's a dead card in your hand until you can hit its extremely restrictive mana cost.
Ultimatum's effect might be better; but that does not make the card itself better.
May 30, 2020 10:31 p.m.
Ultimatums can be back breaking, thats a given, the thing is the restrictive cost make it extrimly difficult to cast and you csn only cast it on your turn, unless u got something giving it flash blah blah blah.
In my opinion i would rather get hit with a rift if i got no other way to rebuild or disrupt opponents, other than that it doesnt make much of a difference.
oh and in edh you have to be atleast 3 colors. Idk thats my grain of sand.
May 31, 2020 12:42 p.m.
griffstick says... #12
Caerwyn brought up a very good point when he said you can't use Sol Ring to help cast the ultimatum. To further back up his or her point, being in mardu colors the only ramp you are likely to have is colorless ramp. There's the occasional Darksteel Ingot, Commander's Sphere, Chromatic Lantern, etcetera etcetera. To help mardu ramp and color fix but even with that being said you still cant use colorless mana to cast these spells. Making it terribly slow. Even though Cyclonic Rift is exactly the same cmc, being able to use sol ring or mana crypt or mana vault to help cast cyclonic rift pushes it further ahead of the pack. It's also only one color identity, blue. This is another reason why rift is better. Being able to slot it in so easily into every deck with blue makes it stronger.
Conclusion there is no doubt getting hit with Ruinous Ultimatum is far more devastating and game ending then Cyclonic Rift. However the rift from the point of the caster and deck builder is the far more superior. Oh also instant speed.
May 31, 2020 1:12 p.m.
Yu guys realize that in terms of edh these two cards are almost never going to actually be compared, right?
Like they cant be in the same deck most of the time and wont be competing for slots.
Also, either ones gonna hurt, because in my experience the person casting the ultimatum will have a way to steal creatures from the yard and the person whos casting the rift will have a way to recast it in a few turns.
May 31, 2020 1:31 p.m.
Honestly... even if the ultimatum was I’d still peg rift as better. If the ultimatum was instant speed but the cost didn’t change, rift would be better. If ultimatum got cost adjusted as mentioned above AND became instant speed... I honestly still believe rift would be better.
Cards like Heroic Intervention can give instant speed indestructible effects, but nothing (except the almighty Counterspell) saves against rift. Sure you can recast the bounced stuffed, but typically if you get hit by a rift, you’re dead. Plain and simple. There’s more outs against the effect of Ruinous Ultimatum than there are against Cyclonic Rift in any truly competitive deck, and that makes rift a more reliable card.
Genuinely... the ultimatum would have to exile, become instant speed, and have its cost adjusted for it to be within the realm of “better than rift”. As is... I’d put it closer to Austere Command. And even then I think austere beets the ultimatum just because it’s way easier to cast.
May 31, 2020 6 p.m.
griffstick says... #15
Good point Ruinous Ultimatum does nothing to a player with Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I feel than, the mass one sided instant speed bounce is the strongest effect in cmdr. Because the only thing that survives through that is Teferi's Protection
May 31, 2020 9:14 p.m.
griffstick says... #16
Don't say Counterspell anyone because I know. and That's not surviving through it
May 31, 2020 9:33 p.m.
Counterspell is the solution to all the world's problems. Except maybe the current ones. All of the multiverse's problems then. But honestly, I have a couple of green-white token decks, and the card I fear the most is Rift. I have about 8 ways to survive through Ultimatum or punish my OP for playing it, but I have exactly 2 ways to stop Rift: Memory Lapse, and politics with the blue players.
June 1, 2020 11:54 a.m.
Ah, yes, indeed I did. Sorry about the confusion folks. Lapse of Certainty
June 1, 2020 10:14 p.m.
griffstick says... #21
DarkHero, after much debate I don't think anything is better than Cyclonic Rift
June 2, 2020 11:07 a.m.
I'm sure others have said as much, but you can't compare the two in the least.
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compared to (with the option to do for a lesser effect). So much easier to cast
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Instant vs. Sorcery is a big deal
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On many occasion return to hand can be better than destroy, especially in EDH.
jaymc1130 says... #2
Sorcery speed.
7 colored mana symbols.
Clearly not as good.
May 30, 2020 7:09 p.m.