9/13 Commander Banning/Unbanning
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 13, 2021, 1:22 p.m. by NinjaBunny01
Since I haven't seen it posted yet. They banned Golos, Tireless Pilgrim and unbanned Worldfire.
Grubbernaut says... #2
I personally don't really care, and I actually understand their perspective entirely. CEDH players want busted stuff, but people cruising around the middle of the spectrum don't want a homogeneous playing field. Golos might be versatile, but its cost being all colorless makes it much easier to cheat out early (and therefore, performing very very similar play patterns), which seems suspect on a WUBRG commander.
Overall, it doesn't matter to me either way, but I can understand what they're trying to do. Rule 0 will always be a thing.
September 14, 2021 10:50 a.m.
thank you Caerwyn i didn't see this!
there isn't a single person who isnt a brainwashed mouthbreathing yes man that thinks this is a good ban... at most ban as a commander but not in the 99... that's just a bad move on their part.
September 14, 2021 12:25 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #4
magwaaf banning cards only in the 99 would be an unprecedented disaster.
The thing with the RC openly displaying their lines of thought is it might be too much transparency; there are always people that will opposed to any ban, and if they try and only hit cards that the entire community hates then they'll get nowhere.
September 14, 2021 1:39 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #5
Omniscience_is_life I think magwaaf was saying the other way around. Legal in the 99, banned in the command zone. Which would not be unprecedented. I honestly wish that the RC would keep a separated command zone/99 banlist like they used to.
September 14, 2021 2 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #6
EleshNornsFs you're right, I worded my rebuttal poorly. But I honestly don't like it either direction, so my stance stands firm yet flipped :p
September 14, 2021 4:10 p.m.
To say Golos isn't the best Gods commander is ridiculous. Of course it is. You can get access to World Tree on turn 3-5 and spew out your entire deck way before curve. Progenitius doesn't do anything close to that.
September 14, 2021 4:54 p.m.
It's worse then that, you all are forgetting Sanctum of Eternity, where golos hits the board on 2, again on 3, again on 4, then activates tree on 5 ending the game just by playing your commander and some ramp peaces.
Let's not forget same tactic made urzatron possible in edh
September 14, 2021 7:44 p.m. Edited.
To be clear I'm not trying start a debate. It's OK if your against the ban, but people need to stop pretending that golos wasn't broken, and also claiming people that support the ban are brainwashed mouth breathers.
Lets Keep it real.
September 14, 2021 7:53 p.m. Edited.
I think Golos was a bad design and was not good overall for the format. As others have stated, being a colorless card that mana ramps/fixes while providing access to WUBRG and an activated ability that cheats things into play make it just generically good for any five-color deck. Commander would have been better without it being printed.
That being said I don't believe it should be banned. Golos decks were generally not oppressive. Many people used Golos to helm non-competitive but fun decks that he made more viable as a commander. Even the tuned good-stuff piles that were more cut-throat weren't oppressive like a tuned Urza or Korvold. I also think it's unfair to the many, many players who built Golos decks.
I do understand that some people do agree with the ban and I get the reasons why, especially if they had a more tuned Golos deck in their playgroup. In the end I think the community will adapt and move on. I hope that Wizards learns a lesson about the dangers of broadly powerful cards. I also hope that the RC learns how to better handle bans because I think they dropped the ball on communicating this one, regardless of how you feel about the ban.
September 14, 2021 10:02 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
CasualCucumber, I hope that Chulane is not banned, because I have a deck with him as the general, a deck of which I am very fond.
September 14, 2021 10:42 p.m.
griffstick says... #13
I'm over it allready. It's whatever now. The ban happened I'm over it and moving on.
September 14, 2021 10:47 p.m.
RambIe: Sanctum of Eternity is definitely fun with Golos, but you are still talking about an 8 mana ramp spell. And sure, if you can hit Mana Crypt/Sol Ring to accelerate that then it's gross, but so is basically every commander at that point.
And yes, we can have the discussion about fast mana (though I would say not in this thread) however I don't see any of it getting banned soon since everybody can run it and Sol Ring at least is super accessible.
September 14, 2021 10:49 p.m.
griffstick: Most people accept that the ban happened and will move on as well. Like this and basically all other bans, there's not really anything that you can do but to move forward.
This does raise some real concerns though around the RC and generic 5C commanders. Does this mean that cards like Kenrith, Najeela or even Esika are now in the RC's sights? That and the lack of transparency makes me very much understand why many people feel the rug has been pulled out from under them. And this has people concerned that it will happen again.
September 14, 2021 11:07 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #16
A little more from my recent interaction with the Commander RC...
Sheldon said they had a 'watch list' in the past, in the early days of the format. He said they had massive problems with expectation management. The idea of "You put a card on the list and then didn't ban it!"
By no means saying that one way is superior to the other, but...just some more insight into RC's methodology.
September 15, 2021 12:10 a.m.
golgarigirl: While I can understand that happening and being frustrating, the alternative is that (as has been said even on this forum) poeple will spend money on a potentially expensive card for their deck, only for it to be banned shortly after (or in transit).
And I can understand that people might panic buy a backup commander if theirs is put on the watchlist, however it still gives players time to respond and make a decision about if they want to change over immediately or if they want to risk that a card won't end up being banned.
September 15, 2021 1:16 a.m.
enpc fast mana is not broken, fetching any land to battle field every turn that is broken.
A fully tuned golos lands matter deck is an absolute work of art.
Also a beast that i think would shock most of you based on the comments about golos.
keep in mind lands can do most things spells can do, and tuning to make consistently on 2 is not a complicated task
September 15, 2021 7:31 a.m.
RambIe: I would believe that a fully tuned golos deck is more than capable of doing what you're describing. I've seen quite a few decks pull of some very impressive plays and getting 5 mana on turn 2 is well within the realsm of possibility. But the kind of deck you're talking about is not what I would call a general representation of casual to mid tier, where the discussion about the banning is based.
When we talk about cEDH, all bets are off. With people dropping turn 2 Thassa's Oracle/Demonic Consultation with Pact of Negation for backup, a full spec Golos is at home and evenly matched. But again, tha banning is not based on that.
For a casual to mid tier (i.e. low to middle pub stomp) deck, designed for a casual to mid tier playgroup to be even semi consistently hitting a turn 2 (or even 3) Golos raises a lot of flags. Specifically around either what your definition of casual/mid tier is or around the clear disparity of players within said playgroup.
September 15, 2021 8:15 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #20
RambIe, I don't think anyone here is disputing that Golos wasn't a strong commander. It wasn't the strongest 5-color commander, but still one of the better ones. And turboing out any value-centric commander will take over the game similarly. That's why mana efficiency (fast mana in particular) is one of the most important factors when separating deck tiers. Your example of a T2 Golos being broken is less about Golos being broken and more about fast mana enabling decks to jump out to an early, insurmountable lead.
golgarigirl, I remember that watchlist. I liked that thing, though it suffered from poor execution if I recall correctly.
I am sure many people already saw it, but The Command Zone released their take on the banning late yesterday (or at least that's when I saw it) and I personally think they offered a pretty competent discussion against the banning from a card/gameplay perspective.
September 15, 2021 8:25 a.m.
enpc now I'm responding
to your responding to me responding to your responding of me responding to others (head spins) about dismissing golos as if it was some jank helpless card and even posts insulting others for there opinions on the matter.
Personally the ban has no effect on me and I can see both points of view. The point I'm trying to make is people are entitled to be for or against the ban. But let's not make things up and let's not put people down.
September 15, 2021 8:53 a.m.
RambIe: But did you know that I know that they know that you knew that I knew? Let me ask you that :P
I absolutely agree with your comment - while I might not agree with the ban, there will be people who have had quite unpleasnat experiences against Golos decks and I can totally undersand why they would be for the ban.
I thought we were being quite civil, though apologies if that came across differently. I definitely don't think of you as a brainwashed mouthbreathing yes man, if that's any consolation.
But I'm happy to bow out of this one too - I'm getting a "let sleeping dogs lie" vibe, so I might hand the discussion over to others.
September 15, 2021 9:19 a.m.
enpc "RambIe: But did you know that I know that they know that you knew that I knew? Let me ask you that :P"
sigh... I used to know but know I'm not so sure
"I thought we were being quite civil, though apologies if that came across differently. I definitely don't think of you as a brainwashed mouthbreathing yes man, if that's any consolation."
You are 100% correct, you and I are totally cool as always and I'm glad you don't think of me that way lol please refer to page #2 post#2 for reference
EDIT: I catch what your saying and will bow out with you.
September 15, 2021 9:29 a.m. Edited.
SynergyBuild says... #24
TypicalTimmy little late to the condo, but for anybody interested, as I'm responding about worldfire/Chandra, the more popular approach most of the casual and cEDH discords I'm a part of have discussed involves Jeska, Thrice Reborn. Basically partner with whoever you want, cast worldfire with enough mana to cast jeska, then do so and win by -1ing your opponents to death.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #1
Sorry for the double post, tappedout appears to be acting up, but really we just need more dialogue with the RC. They need to open up their deliberation process to at least give the community knowledge about what they are currently considering.
September 14, 2021 10:25 a.m.