Thrasios/Tymna vs Kenrith
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 5, 2021, 3:10 a.m. by enpc
At present I run a Thrasios, Triton Hero / Tymna the Weaver combo control deck: Triton Weaver, however having access to red (for haste effects and a few key cards) has always seemed like a decent idea.
For a while now I have pondered about if Kenrith, the Returned King would be a better commander for the list. I have put together a WIP list here: Hail to the king, baby which is very similar in concept but takes advantage of a few key red cards.
The biggest selling point for Kenny has been than he adds red. But at the same time the biggest drawback has been that you need blue mana for his draw card (one of the big pros for Thrasios).
So I wanted to get peoples' thoughts, which one do they prefer and why?
Just keep practicing this sentence
"ok, in response draw 100 cards"
August 5, 2021 7:58 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #4
To be honest, the reason I swapped from Tymna/Thrasios to Kenrith, Returned King is threefold.
Access to red lets me get Dockside Extortionist, and as explained above by RambIe, any infinite mana combo leads to a win without needing any specific cards in deck with kenrith in the command zone. It also lets me have some of the best interaction in the format, the best sweeper in Fire Covenant, the best free counter in Deflecting Swat (imo), two of the best dorks in the format (Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer and Ignoble Hierarch), as well as a slew of other options from Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast to Mayhem Devil (an immediate threat against any LED Breach piles, especially if they set up with an ad nauseam/peer, it's great against Tithe, or against Ragavan, or against dockside, but it's also insane with any of them on your side of the field), and a personaly new favorite Expressive Iteration, the 2 mana dig 3 draw 2.
Kenrith also allows access to some of the most efficient win lines. My personal favorite is how it interacts with Hermit Druid. Not only in a dedicated deck can it immediately give it haste, active it, and be the recursion piece to bring back Thassa's Oracle, but it can also reanimate the Druid if you Entomb it, or abuse Intuition like Kess, etc.
Kenrith does something else I find great, which is simply have some serious potential to abuse any boardstate, often under most any stax. With just 4 mana invested, it can become a 7/7 that can kill in three turns, or give itself and other creatures you control more counters, trample, and haste and one-shot if draw lines aren't available and you have infinite mana (I did this two nights ago when a Winota managed to pull out a Spirit of the Labyrinth). The deck is so efficient early, mid, and late game in this fashion that it is one of the most popular stax commanders in cEDH, one of the most popular midrange commanders in cEDH, and one of the most popular fast combo commanders as well.
Tbh, Kenrith is busted.
August 5, 2021 9:41 a.m.
RambIe: That was one of the reasons I really liked Kenrith, since he acted as not only an infinite mana sink but also a win condition is his own right (as well as being a WUBRG enabler).
SynergyBuild: having the additional access to red was always the main allure of Kenrith for me. The fact that he has 4 super relevant abilites (and one ok ability that can still be relevant) is pretty massive too. And since I find myself leaning on mana dorks more and more having the ability to give them haste and win that turn alone (even without hte introduction of oteh red cards) is just so good.
Personally I don't like using Thassa's Oracle - I know the card is amazing but it's not my speed. I have been toying with the idea of Lampad of Death's Vigil as a non-Kenrith win condition (though he's still required to enable the combo) through either looping Dockside Extortionist or just looping the Lampad (with infinite mana).
I know the big benefit with Oracle is that you don't rely on infinite mana to win and you don't technically need your commander, which is really nice from an availability point of view, and that is one concern with Kenrith (though techincally I have the same issue with Thrasios).
My big concern with the switch though is that Thrasios doesn't need coloured mana to do his thing, which is still a huge selling point for me. Outside of combo I'm not really fussed but inside the combo, while I'll be able to generate infinite mana, I still technically won't be able to draw my deck from two of my mana dork loops. And including cards like Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy or Orochi Leafcaller seems a bit sub par. I know this is where Thassa's Oracle suffers a lot less, but has this been an issue for you at all?
August 5, 2021 11:49 p.m.
Sorry, enpc it's still a Kenny combo :)
Lampad of Death's Vigil +Great Whale + Kenrith, the Returned King ability
August 6, 2021 7:59 a.m.
Sorry, enpc it's still a Kenny combo :)
Lampad of Death's Vigil +Great Whale + Kenrith, the Returned King ability also works
My biggest argument is that Thrasios can still be in deck as well as any other options that could be considered.
Ignore the double post, first one only posted partially and would not let me edit.
RambIe says... #2
With either its mana loop win
Triton will alow you to use the colorless loops like monolith, however there are hundreds more creature based mana loops and every single one of them would benefit from haste. For this reason I always felt king was more powerfull
King really is broken, once you have your loop in place you draw everyone out, when they cast to kill or stiffle the king you just bury them on the stack with more draw triggers
(1) object that taps for >1
(2) object that untaps (1)
(3) color filter - not always required
That's it that's the hole deck, drop the combo, when they goto remove Give haste and flood the stack with draw triggers.GG
August 5, 2021 7:46 a.m.