Stuff that's important for what to cut for cEDH Boros.

Commander Deck Help forum

Posted on Dec. 4, 2018, 1:41 p.m. by BMHKain

NOTE: This is a topic regarding cEDH Boros. If you think there is no hope for it, do NOT post on this. (The Bold should be warning enough...)

After trying to cut some stuff to 100 for some things, I realized, there is some others to do regarding one deck:

deck chart

Soldier of Fortune, Boros' Final Stand

Commander / EDH* BMHKain

SCORE: 4 | 58 COMMENTS | 583 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

I previously wanted this to be Tier 3, as one joke cEDH deck (Depala, of all things.), did this. But this is a serious attempt by all means. That said, I'll mention some things worth note to get at least just a little bit closer to my goal:

Both of their most recent prints state their abilities differently. Pyroblast has:

Choose one — • Counter target spell if it's blue. • Destroy target permanent if it's blue.

Red Elemental Blast?

Choose one — • Counter target blue spell. • Destroy target blue permanent.

This seems written differently; but I dunno how this is different from the others. Regardless, cEDH usually smiles upon . So I'll leave it to you to decide...

This is a biggie. One person not known for cEDH believes this is a real dud of a wincon. But I'd like some opinions o this. If this really does suck, at least that's 3 cuts so far. Aside from this, Grand Abolisher does wonders here.

This is new as I found that Magistrate's Scepter is just one target for counters; something I know FOR A FACT Boros is NOT good at in the slightest (There, a minus. See? I can agree w/ you too. 0-^) Prototype Portal can imprint any artifact; which can range from an infinite mana via Lotus Petal, or Infinite Turns w/ Ugin's Nexus. Problem? I have little to nothing to destroy the copy is opposed to exiling it. Plus, this is quite expensive; but I don't want to use Final Fortune + Sundial of the Infinite loops; they can be disrupted; besides, this is the only option left (Gonti's Aether Heart is more expensive anyway.). Bonus points for infinite mana in case Ugin's Nexus is a skip. I'll let you decide.

I'm confused about this; happy, but confused. Usually stuff lower than 3 CMC would be fine; but one cEDH Staples lists actually lists her on the main list. runs Dorks, & so few even reach a 3+ toughness. Should I get rid of her for CMC's sake? or should I keep her as a Gamekiller?

W/ so many doing stuff outside of Lifeloss/lifegain, this should be very important to note as others would either Self-Mill via Laboratory Maniac, Maze's End a game, basically put; Wincons that don't depend on Life Total. So, should I put in stuff like these, Goblin Chainwhirler, or other things that can kill life totals? Otherwise, I at least have Altar of the Brood to mill everyone else... XP

After knowing about creatures outside of that can produce Mana, I decided Neheb, the Eternal is no longer enough (It actually requires Damage dealing to make it work; so, I'm thinking of cutting him; considering nobody really wants to damage anyways.). While I could flicker [Farrelite Priest]] & make her new, w/o previous memory, I want to leave it to you; w/ so much Devotion to , Should I rather increase the amount of Plains & decrease the number of Mountains? (I have Blood Moon Anyway...). If she is crap to you, I want to know why; I cannot run Avacyn's Pilgrim you know.

Yes, I get it. Tamiyo's Journal is the only Target of this inspector. That said, Tamiyo's Journal can search for anything. Problem? One target. Not consistent enough, & nobody is recommending a card like Tamiyo's Journal that can also work on its own... Ideas are welcome.

This combo came to me in the form of an Epiphany. After I blow up all lands, I can flicker Fiend Hunter exiling Sun Titan to bring all my lands back; yes, this is possible. Since Lands are 0CMC Permanents, I can bring them all back to my side. even a combo like this can't be stopped by the next part of this charade...

Some of the best cards in this deck so far. It promotes a Prison-Lock for all Graveyards in play. Since this deck should be able to have effects that bypass both of these; I just want to know what to cut due to these...

This also applies to what I can use for Arcane Laboratory in . This combo has been looked up, but I dunno how it'll work here... It should be useful, but I dunno if it's cEDH competitive or not; much less how it works. If this is good both ways, I'm keeping them. At least tell me how it works, please...

  • Squee Sucks?

Squee, the Immortal + Goblin Bombardment was meant to be used as a combo here. But since this uses Eldrazi Displacer to flicker ETB/CIP Creatures, I'm thinking of cutting the former 2 unless I can find a card that mimics Displacer's effect, so I don't have to have just one of such effect to waste... Felidar Guardian?

  • The Emancipation Proclamation NEVER happened...

Emancipation Angel is something not to be cross with. She can return any permanent you control to your hand. Simple as that. Since it's an ETB ability, Eldrazi Displacer can bounce her, & she can do this again. If you want a list of Creatures in my deck that are ETB/CIP based, SUGOI! LET'S KICK As- Captain Janeway: Asteroids. Seven of Nine: Fun will now commence.

(Yes. I LITERALLY pulled off a Star Trek: Voyager.)

Duergar Hedge-Mage Fiend Hunter Goblin Chainwhirler Goblin Settler Imperial Recruiter Mentor of the Meek Mikaeus, the Lunarch Priest of Urabrask Recruiter of the Guard Solemn Simulacrum Sun Titan Thraben Inspector Village Bell-Ringer Wall of Omens Wily Goblin

(Damn, that's a lot... I need to lessen the lot...)

Paradox Engine is the only thing I have to Isochron Scepter imprinting Dramatic Reversal, so it NEEDS to stay; plus, I could've sworn it was a staple here... While this has quite some ETB/CIP effects, that doesn't have to mean things can't be cast either. Even stuff like Sunforger when casting instants are still considered cast. Even Mistveil Plains can bring them back. I really just wanted to throw in Reito Lantern, though; but cards like Grafdigger's Cage might mess w/ it; so it's now a skip.

  • Stax on STACKS on $T@KZ.

Recently, I wanted to take this deck to a differing route; Value Town/Stax/Prison. This in turn meant a lot of stuff; Glowrider, Thorn of Amethyst (How fitting as it's my birthstone; but I still hated how STEVEN UNIVERSE personified her as a character since the beginning... :/), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare, Ethersworn Canonist, Kismet, even Sphere of Resistance is damn good here. While a lot would think stuff like this is crap here, even stuff like Stranglehold, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Grand Abolisher, even Ugin's Nexus & Defense Grid are all great here. Irony? Many wouldn't see all this as competitive enough. So, w/ all that said, one last thing...

  • Any ideas for a new CMDR?

Alright, we're almost done with what might be my longest post here ever... I've been thinking for the longest time; I need a new commander; Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is too much now. Since I took the liberty to change from Stax/Control (Or Value Town/Stax? I dun remember...) to Value Town/Stax/Prison. From there, I decided to make a change of CMDR. But there were bigger flaws w/ most, so I decided to make some regulations:

  1. No Tier 5 CMDRs.
  2. No Tribal Commanders (Stuff like Depala, Pilot Exemplar apply here.)
  3. Partners are only Allowed if not from BBD (Battlebond) (Khorvath Brightflame + Sylvia Brightspear for instance is not allowed.)
  4. Equipment/Aura Based CMDRS are out; I don't have any of that anyway...

I guess this is alright? The reason I left out 5. It must be Aggro Based is, well, the rest of the Tier 4s w/o only counting none of them.

Now I leave all this to you: What should I cut for a legit Tier 3 cEDH deck? I apologize for the Mammoth Sized Text, but it should be worth the effort.

I am open to Constructive Criticism only. I hope this is of good help for what is worth of help to me. I'll let you decide on my fate on this deck now.

griffstick says... #2

I really like your combo with Prototype Portal + Ugin's Nexus I have the perfect cards for that combo. Greater Gargadon

December 4, 2018 3:08 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #3

Without going into the main meat of your thread (I don't currently have time to do so), I can at least quickly answer your rules question.

You are correct - Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast are written differently. While the language difference might be minor, there's actually a huge difference in terms of effect.

Because Red Elemental Blast refers to "target blue spell" or "target blue permanent", the only legal targets for the spell are Blue spells or permanents.

Pyroblast, on the other hand, refers to "target spell/permanent". As such, you can use Pyroblast to target any spell or permanent.

Why does this make a difference? You can cast Pyroblast even if there is nothing it can effect--you only need to have something to target. So, you can use it to target a creature with heroic, triggering that ability, even without destroying the creature. You can safely cast it to increase your Storm count by targeting one of your own permanents. You could target a Phantasmal Image that's copying a non-Blue creature to force a sacrifice. The examples where it matters are slim, but enough exist that it's important to understand this little idiosyncrasy of card language is worth being aware of.

December 4, 2018 3:43 p.m.

BMHKain says... #4

@griffstick: But can you Flicker Greater Gargadon, & still have it suspended? I already have Duergar Hedge-Mage that can do that just fine. :p but it gets crazier; W/ Prototype Portal, if Panharmonicon is in play, the ETB trigger for portal can allow you to imprint two different artifacts. Or am I wrong, & it only applies to ETB/CIP creatures? Being able to imprint two things of the same type would sound damn epic... Xd

@cdkime: Huh... After seeing that in Pyroblast, I feel I might want some more Heroic abilities in there... Xp Dunno if it's a good strategy, but Goblin Bombardment + Squee, the Immortal are cut as one other Goblin doesn't even target any kind of mentioned idea, where Goblin Bombardment does. Red Elemental Blast will probably eat a cut as well...

I wonder if Panharmonicon also applies to Artifacts though... Let me check before commenting...

(Click Clack Moo. Cows That Smash.)

Prototype Portal's imprint ability is ETB based. It's an Artifact, Panharmonicon also targets Artifacts, so this is legit. Lotus Petal + Ugin's Nexus can both be used/copied at the same time, given THAT is in play.

Am I not correct?

December 5, 2018 10:38 a.m.

Caerwyn says... #5

You are correct that Prototype Portal's imprint ability will be copied by Panharmonicon, and that you will be able to use the ability of Prototype Portal to create artifact exiled either by its ETB effect or the copy.

You will add up the total converted mana cost of the exiled artifacts, and then get a copy of each of these cards. So, in your example, will be ( + ), and you will get a token Lotus Petal AND a token Ugin's Nexus.

To be clear, they will be separate tokens, not one token with the abilities mashed together.

607.3. If, within a pair of linked abilities, one ability refers to a single object as “the exiled card,” “a card exiled with [this card],” or a similar phrase, and the other ability has exiled multiple cards (usually because it was copied), the ability refers to each of the exiled cards. If that ability asks for any information about the exiled card, such as a characteristic or converted mana cost, it gets multiple answers. If these answers are used to determine the value of a variable, the sum of the answers is used. If that ability performs any actions on the exiled card, it performs that action on each exiled card.

December 5, 2018 10:59 a.m.

griffstick says... #6

@BMHKain says... #4

@griffstick: But can you Flicker Greater Gargadon, & still have it suspended? I already have Duergar Hedge-Mage that can do that just fine. :p but it gets crazier; W/ Prototype Portal, if Panharmonicon is in play, the ETB trigger for portal can allow you to imprint two different artifacts.

To that statement. To do what you are saying has some serious build up Panharmonicon, Prototype Portal, 2 artifacts in hand one of them being Ugin's Nexus and having Duergar Hedge-Mage in hand. So this takes a lot of set up. Now the upside is Duergar Hedge-Mage is good removal for your opponents but the downside is, with Duergar Hedge-Mage you'll only get one or 2 extra turns if you are all set up correctly and have two Ugin's Nexus's in play at the time Duergar Hedge-Mage enters.

So on the flipside let's say you have Ugin's Nexus in hand you have Prototype Portal in hand and Greater Gargadon was already suspended with 9 time counters on it. If you have 9 mana, you can cast and activate that turn and now take 5 extra turns in a row. A worse case scenario just for fun. Greater Gargadon was suspended on turn 1 because you had it in your opening hand. You've made it to turn 3 with 5 mana because or sol ring. You play the Prototype Portal exiling Ugin's Nexus imprinting it. Turn 4 with 6 time counters on your suspended Greater Gargadon, you play a land and that brings you to 6 mana assuming anything else you did up to this point was play sol ring and lands. You now use 5 mana for the token of Ugin's Nexus sacrifice it to the gargadon to take an extra turn. You'll be able to take up to 3 extra turns with a big ass creature when you are done. Now this was the simplest sample. It off course gets better if you are able to untap the portal and do it again before you go to your next turn.

The point I'm make is since this deck is "competitive" you will be able to pull off this combo way faster and way better with the gargadon then you would with the Duergar Hedge-Mage

December 5, 2018 12:16 p.m. Edited.

BMHKain says... #7

Well, in the obvious sense, I already knew that doing that would result in separate tokens. As for Greater Gargadon, you still didn't mention it would be re:Suspended w/ cards like Eldrazi Displacer, (& to be more of a variety if one doesn't run , or .), Deadeye Navigator (At least while Soulbonded.), among others that exile permanents & returns them to play at some point, griffstick.

That Said, I can't fragging believe you guys would think either Prototype Portal, & Ugin's Nexus is considered good in cEDH. Or am I still incorrect? If so, I'll remove at least Nexus, & from there, this deck won't have Time Magic (Magistrate's Scepter does Charge Counters, & Gonti's Aether Heart uses the same Counter Concept; something Boros is, like I said, not good with... & don't get me started on Final Fortune & Sorcery Cousins & Glorious End; being forced to lose a game against your options is something I won't make the mistake of again...). Geez though, those aren't even staples. X/

December 5, 2018 12:41 p.m.

griffstick says... #8

You are in boros colors. There really isnt much cEDH cards, plus when a card is suspended it's in exile. I'm not a competitive player I'm just taking a combo you mentioned and making it better. Plus you now mentioned Eldrazi Displacer that's more mana you are adding to the equation.

December 5, 2018 1:25 p.m.

BMHKain says... #9

Oh. Well, that solves the Suspend problem, but now this raises a new question. What if Greater Gargadon is relieved of its 10 suspend Counters (In this case of an example: an Imprinted Ugin's Nexus.), could one flicker Gargadon w/ whatever can bring it back, Suspend 10'd again? Or would this require a mana to suspend Gargadon again? After I get an answer, I'll worry about what's left of what the others have to say about this...

December 5, 2018 1:51 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #10

"That Said, I can't fragging believe you guys would think either Prototype Portal, & Ugin's Nexus is considered good in cEDH."

If you look back at what I posted, I never said whether it was good or not--I merely answered your rules-related question without any feedback on the card's viability.

To provide some thoughts on Ugin's Nexus's viability, I do not see it as that great a card. It can serve two functions, neither of which it is great at.

First, it can be a card to build-around, but, as griffstick noted, it might not be that viable as a build-around competitively. This is particularly true if you don't have Blue to help draw and find combo pieces.

Second, it serves as a substitute for the better Stranglehold.

Neither of these is all that exciting.

December 5, 2018 2:01 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #11

You can not flicker a card and re-suspend it. Suspend is an ability (or, more accurately, three abilities) that can be used when the card is in your hand.

  1. A static ability of the card while it is in your hand, allowing it to be suspended, a process that does not use the stack.

  2. A beginning of your upkeep ability removing a time counter.

  3. A triggered ability for when the last time counter is removed, allowing you to cast the card and giving that card, if it is a creature, haste.

Rule 702.61(a)

None of these are implicated when you flicker a card.

December 5, 2018 2:09 p.m.

BMHKain says... #12

Hmmm... Well, I suppose that's another reason to keep Emancipation Angel; unless there's something better than her for the same purpose... Kor Skyfisher? Aviary Mechanic? Both look like WAY better alts anyway...

December 5, 2018 2:29 p.m.

griffstick says... #13

@ BMHKain if I was you I would start from scratch. And look at modern decks in the red a white colors including banned from modern cards like Splinter Twin and make a deck around that idea. Because it works in modern.

December 5, 2018 3:04 p.m.

BMHKain says... #14

Update: I found someone who could help out w/ this. Someone may close this please. :)

December 9, 2018 1:44 p.m.

Please login to comment