Should I Keep Angrath in These Decks?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 9, 2021, 12:57 a.m. by DemonDragonJ
I have Angrath, the Flame-Chained in my red/white/black and red/green/black EDH decks, primarily for his second ability, which synergizes well with the central themes of those decks, but I am wondering if I should replace him with a creature that has a similar ability (i.e., stealing an opponent's creature and then sacrificing it), and my main reason for wishing to do that is so that I can replace Caged Sun in those decks with The Immortal Sun, which I obviously cannot put into a deck that contains planeswalkers (and there is also the fact that Caged Sun simply is not suitable for a deck with three colors).
However, Angrath is quite excellent, so I could always keep him in those decks and replace Caged Sun with another card, instead.
What does everyone else say about this? Should I keep Angrath in those two decks, and, if not, what creature is very similar to him?
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #3
Combining both abilities (Threaten and Fling) is pretty unusual, the reason being that it is obviously very powerful. Letting aside Angrath, there's only one card in your colours that can do it: Grab the Reins. You don't play it in both Tariel and Kresh, so it could definitely replace Angrath in both decks. I also stumbled upon Helm of Possession. This seems like a great addition to the decks.
October 9, 2021 1:10 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
seshiro_of_the_orochi, that is an excellent card, but it requires that the stolen creature be sacrificed immediately, and it is also a one-time effect, and I am seeking a repeatable effect.
I think that I shall replace Angrath with Captivating Crew in my red/white/black deck, as that deck already has two sacrifice outlets in the form of Butcher of the Horde and Immersturm Predator, but, as for my red/green/black deck, I have actually found several cards that would work for it, which I shall compile into a list.
Sacrifice Outlets Show
That is an impressive list of creatures that sacrifice other creatures, so I now need to decide which of them I shall put into my deck; does anyone here have any suggestions?
October 9, 2021 7:23 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #5
That decision makes sense.
I'd say the sac outlets not costing any mana usually are the best ones. There are some I'd like to suggest in addition to your list (I didn't double check your decks, so I don't know if you play any of them.):
Another card that goes well into decks that want to sacrifice is Smothering Abomination.
October 10, 2021 12:33 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #6
I am personally a huge fan of cards that hit multiple opponents at once. For example, one of my favorite cards in MTG is Arterial Flow. For just you get SIX TOTAL CARDS OUT OF HANDS. And that's without having a Vampire! Slap a Vampire on board and you also land a total life-loss of 6 across the board and you get +2?? That's a +4 spread!
- If you have an opponent at 40, and you are at 40, they are now at 38 and you are at 42. A 4 point spread between life totals. While it is true that having a super high life total generally won't win you the game except for a few exceptions in white, it does also make it harder for your opponent(s) to win, so it does help.
Sure there are players who actively want specific cards in their graveyard, so you may be helping them. Looking at you, Muldrotha. But, I live by the philosophy that you shouldn't build and play out of fear; Build your deck and if someone has an archetype that naturally works well against yours, so be it. It's all a rock-paper-scissors game, anyway. You may sit down at a table with all three opponents running graveyard synergy, in which case Arterial Flow is one of the single worst cards you could possibly play. But you also may be against no opponents who have graveyard synergy - in that case if they have absolutely zero means of interacting with their own graveyard at all, ever, then that card is as good as exiled.
With Angrath, the Flame-Chained, not only are you hitting multiple opponents at once and causing damage, you also have it on a repeatable tick. Every single turn you can use it again, and again, and again. That's why I love Planeswalkers to death; It's literally a free sorcery every single turn (albeit after the 1st turn it's out; You had to cast it, afterall.)
I personally love Angrath, the Flame-Chained and believe and recommend he be used more. The +1 is always a very powerful option to use; The -3 does come in handy quite often, especially if you can use someone's wincon against them or if you have a means of self-removal such as Ashnod's Altar. Finally his -8 is brutal because it doesn't just care about creatures, but everything. And we all know that by the end of a game of EDH, a graveyard may have 10, 15, 20 hell even sometimes like 50+ cards in it. That becomes a wincon and can actually close out a game against all three opponents. If each opponent is down to 20 life and their graveyards each have 30 cards in them, that's a wincon.
I say keep him; He's far more powerful than you might first think. No, he's not cEDH-powerful; Few, if any, Planeswalkers are. By the time you spend the mana and resources to use a Planeswalker, you could have went infinite in other ways to win. But for non-cEDH decks and tables, he honestly is a powerhouse.
Plus, first turn he upticks to 5. That's nothing to scoff at, because he can and usually will survive a smack.
October 10, 2021 3:07 a.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #7
seshiro_of_the_orochi, I agree that sacrifice outlets that cost no mana are the best, but some of those, such as Carrion Feeder, simply have too minor of an effect. What about sacrifice outlets that cost only 1 mana?
Also, the ability of Smothering Abomination is mandatory, not optional, so that could hurt me, if I am not careful.
TypicalTimmy, I definitely am fond of Angrath, but I am removing him so that I can switch Caged Sun with The Immortal Sun, which may seem to be an unusual choice, but I am very fond of that card and have it in nearly every EDH deck of mine. Do not worry, I am keeping Angrath in my red/black/blue EDH deck, because that deck also contains Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, who is too awesome to remove from that deck.
October 10, 2021 7:54 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
After deliberating my above list of sacrifice outlets, I have removed several creatures; I removed Gnawing Zombie because Lampad of Death's Vigil is strictly better than it; I removed Gutless Ghoul because Disciple of Griselbrand is better than it in the majority of situations; I removed Skullport Merchant because it cannot sacrifice itself;, and I removed Soulreaper of Mogis and Spark Reaper because their abilities are to expensive to activate; thus, here is my new list of potential sacrifice outlets for my deck:
Sacrifice Outlets Show
Which creature is the most appealing of these?
October 10, 2021 12:43 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #9
If I understood it correctly, you have two slots to fill. So my votes go to Immersturm Predator and Viscera Seer.
October 10, 2021 12:47 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
seshiro_of_the_orochi, I actually already made the replacement in my red/white/black EDH deck, so I have only a single card to replace in my red/black/green EDH deck, and I, also, am fond of Immersturm Predator, as it prevents graveyard recursion and also becomes more powerful with each creature that is sacrificed, so I think that that is the best card to replace Angrath in that deck.
October 10, 2021 6:23 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #11
Angrath seems pretty underwhelming, overall. If you're wanting it for flavor - keep it, you'll enjoy it. If you're iffy, or looking to power up, it's probably worth swapping out.
October 10, 2021 8:38 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Grubbernaut, I acknowledge that Angrath is not the most powerful of all planeswalkers, but I think that he could be very effective in the proper deck, such as my red/black/blue deck, which centers around forced sacrifice.
DemonDragonJ says... #2
Disciple of Griselbrand would be awesome for those decks, but it does not allow me to steal a creature from an opponent, unfortunately.
Captivating Crew is also awesome, but it does not allow me to sacrifice a creature that I take from an opponent.
October 9, 2021 1:20 a.m.