Phoenix Deck color and commander
Posted on Oct. 7, 2021, 10:49 p.m. by Stardragon
I making a tribal Phoenix deck and i don't know what color/s i should nor the commander. While ik the majority will say mono-red since that what all but one phoenix is while another small group will say go 5 color so i can use Worldheart Phoenix, i'm going to no say to five color just for that one card. As for mono-red it's on the table and i'm thinking if go that route it's either Torbran, Thane of Red Fell or Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh Flip. However Rakdos seems pretty enticing for it outright better spot removal and board wipes, but also access to many great recursion cards, ik phoenixes do come back it's there thing but they rarely if ever come back to the battlefield instead going to your hand and they're expensive to cast because they can revive they more expensive mana wise than other creature of simikar power but a ridiculous amount. Most of the recursion is conditional or having you go through hoops to bring them back so extra mana is kinda unwarranted at least the amount of extra mana they tack on, or if it is reasonably costed the mana to bring it back or the hoops you have to jump that much more harder to do, but by adding black i can send them back to the battlefield with any hoops, though many will be exiled by these effects if they die again, the commander would most likely be Chainer, Nightmare Adept. Or should i go Jeskai as blue and white gives great flying support, haven't really thought a commander if this route yet.
EDIT: After talking with people i figured out that Boros, Jeskai or Mardu is the way to go because that gives access to Zirda, the Dawnwaker and she helps immensely with bring back my phoenixes as her second ability hit even creatures in the graveyard. Now I got to figure out what route im going to take if Boros Zirda is the commander done and done, but still having problems with thinking of a jeskai commander, as for mardu there is only only one I can think and that's Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, though at best she hits only 9 phoenixes out the 29 and i only choose 5 out those 9 to be in my deck She still does return some of creatures. Idk yet but red/white will be the new base with red still being the main color obviously
Your guy's thoughts?
Here a link to the start of my deck haven't finished till i figure out my commander/color scheme yet while mono red atm that can change Reborn from the Ashes
What sort of power level are you aiming to achieve, and what's your budget?
Even by casual standards, it seems like it would be hard to make a phoenix-centric deck that could get wins with the actual phoenix cards. But, I could be completely spacing some obscure phoenix card that might work as a finisher.
October 7, 2021 11:23 p.m.
I mean, you could go Rule Zero and make Worldheart Phoenix your commander. Then you have access to WUBRG.
Assuming you don't want to do that, Darigaaz Reincarnated might be a good option. Why Darigaaz is a dragon, the ability feels very phoenix-y and so is on theme. Plus you then get access to reanimation and dies triggers in black, as well as ramp effects in green.
October 7, 2021 11:23 p.m. Edited.
There are 29 Phoenix cards in the game all but one is mono red including activation cost complete list linked
October 7, 2021 11:37 p.m. Edited.
Of those, the ones that stand out to me are Screeching Phoenix, Ashcloud Phoenix, and Magma Phoenix. If you went Boros, there's surely a way to use Zirda, the Dawnwaker to go infinite. Or jeskai to include Training Grounds, etc
That being said, the rest don't seem exciting unless you have some other synergy going on with reanimating/returning creatures.
October 7, 2021 11:59 p.m.
What Grubbernaut said sounds viable. Why nit actually go with Zirda, the Dawnwaker as your commander? She massively helps your phoenixes and is a fire animal herself. If youbstill want to play black for Chainer, how about Alesha, Who Smiles at Death?
October 8, 2021 12:15 a.m.
Not an actual Phoenix, but Prossh, Skyraider of Kher kinda looks like one. that you want with to ramp into the higher cmcs, general access to a sacrifice outlet opens the doors for combos.
October 8, 2021 6:58 a.m.
P.s. check your deck link
Hey check out my deck [[07-10-21-rise-from-the-ashes]]
October 8, 2021 7:02 a.m. Edited.
Grubbernaut-I figured already phoenixes would a weak tribe by themselves and figured i would need a big finisher, atm i have Yidaro, Wandering Monster in the deck for to reasons 1. as a finisher and 2. He can be cycled multiply times which allows to bring back Spellpyre Phoenix. And i have Utvara Hellkite as a big finisher as well.
enpc No i don't want five colors, three at most. I considered green but other than ramp and enchantment/artifact hate i really didn't see green as beneficial, though black green does indeed have great death pay offs im not trying to make an aristocratic style deck. As for Darigaaz Reincarnated yes his ability is reminiscent of phoenixes but since he's your command he just return to the command and ignore the whole egg counter thing though he would ne more expensive
Grubbernaut and seshiro_of_the_orochi No never really thought of Boros as an option i did think of Jeskai but not Boros. As for Zirda, the Dawnwaker while she would help my phoenixes out greatly but have access to blue would also let gain access to flying support like Kangee, Sky Warden, Inniaz, the Gale Force, Sprite Noble, Windstorm Drake, Favorable Winds ect. As for Alesha, Who Smiles at Death she was my first thought as a three color commander but out of the 29 phenoxies she only hits 9 of them with her ability and out of ones I choose she only hits five of them so not sure if she's worth it. But Mardu does access to both recursion and flying sppourt just not the best compared if when with jeskai. But remembering Zirda means that Red White will be at minimum the way to go.
October 8, 2021 7:34 a.m.
This question has been asked so many times befor and the one cmdr I liked from previous posts was Marchesa, the Black Rose. You're gonna want to attack with those birds anyway why not get value for it.
October 8, 2021 7:44 a.m.
RambIe as with enpc I explained I really don't want to go that route to the biggest plus for adding green is the ramp i really don't want to make a aristocratic or death combo deck so any jund commander is basically a no go. txs for for you input as for my deck link I changed the name so that there where no conflicts of interest and the link now works though thxs for doing that as well
October 8, 2021 7:47 a.m.
griffstick that also not a bad idea damn need to think
October 8, 2021 7:52 a.m.
F it im going five color i didn't want to but so many good choices to help them out i can't decide
October 8, 2021 7:53 a.m.
I'm sorry for all those who help think of ideas but at the same it those ideas that made go this route though green is still an after thought i may be more accurate to call four a four colored deck with green tack on
October 8, 2021 8 a.m.
See this is the issue people get in with ramp they think green is the only one that can ramp when you have artifact ramp you want 2cmc or new school 2mv rocks and below as much as possible if budget is tight think off you get back 1 mana for every two you spend is a solid ration.
October 8, 2021 10:14 a.m.
Mana rocks are great, but the biggest advantage of being in green (as far as ramp) is the huge amount of 1cmc dorks. Having access to Llanowar Elves, Elvish Mystic, Elves of Deep Shadow, Boreal Druid, Deathrite Shaman, Birds of Paradise, Avacyn's Pilgrim, and also the good 2-mana ones like Priest of Titania, Bloom Tender, and Incubation Druid is a huge boon. Getting the ramp out a turn earlier (or having it tap for multiple colored mana) makes a big difference.
Of course, if you have artifact synergies, that's its own animal and worth going into. For the idea of a boros Phoenix deck, you could also add in a tutor/Sunforger package for good value.
October 8, 2021 10:47 a.m.
hejtmane ik know you can ramp outside of green and decently well at that what im saying is that I do not think green has anything to offer in phoenixes besides ramp.
October 8, 2021 3:45 p.m.
You're not wrong, but ramp is absolutely critical - especially for strategies that need a lot of mana to be competitive.
It's kind of like saying "black doesn't add anything except tutors," etc
October 8, 2021 3:58 p.m.
To say black does not add anything except tutors is absurd.
October 8, 2021 5:25 p.m.
I agree, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.
October 8, 2021 5:39 p.m.
I know what you're saying. Green has lots of good card draw and finishers as well. Green has The Great Henge, Rishkar's Expertise, Seasons Past and many more great staples and many powerful cards. Green has Sylvan Library! Green is arguably the 1st best color. To exclude it based off of the reason it only has ramp to offer means you has not look hard enough at Green.
However. I agree that if it's ramp you are after there's plenty of ramp that's great outside of Green.
October 8, 2021 5:47 p.m.
For mardu, I'd look at Jeska, Thrice Reborn/Tymna the Weaver. Tymna lets you draw cards after you use your phoenixes to whack people, and jeska can triple the damage if you know something will be unblocked. Queen Marchesa would be another option, with all your flying you can most likely hold onto monarch pretty well or easily grab it back, and the assassin tokens are just a nice addition.
In a burst of shameless self-promotion, I've been running a monored phoenix tribal deck for about a year now, and it does fairly well. Its not as fast as something like elves or slivers, but it holds it own, can recover from board wipes decently, and due to all the damage doubles shoved in, it can deal out a lot of damage from just a few attackers.